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Do not download the app, use the website

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Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#611

Post by xigoi »

JimDabell wrote: post #458
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

> People just really like apps! This is it. I’ve worked on plenty of projects that have web/iOS/Android, and the reason for offering native apps has always been user demand. All of this “spy on the user” crap literally never even comes up in conversation. We don’t care at all . We care about native apps because users care about native apps.

If that’s the case, why do so many websites try to push you into using the app even if you have no problem with using the website?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#612

Post by addaon »

dontlaugh wrote: post #492
addaon wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I get almost zero notifications on iOS, you can just disable them. There are a couple exceptions but they are high-signal and business purpose. The one that gets me is Uber. For several minutes a month while traveling, I really want their notifications. But once a day when I don't, they use it to send advertisements for services I can't even use (no Uber or Uber Eats service where I live). I used to turn off notifi…

You can disable the notifications and enable the live view. It’ll notify about the current ride. At least for now there are no ads there.

Huh, I sort of assumed that they used the same permission ("pop crap up on my lock screen"). Didn't occur to me they were different. Thanks.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#613

Post by rpdillon »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #482
kelthuzad wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If web apps were any good, we'd see a plethora of them on Android. There are none (or very, very, very few). This statement alone is evidence that you didn't understand the crux of the issue. You are also confusing cause and effect. I clearly explained the root causes for that. The reason there are not more web apps is not that they aren't "good" - what does that even mean? what is the criterion for "good" here? If…

> Web Apps need to become just Apps. Apps built with the free and open web need equal treatment and integration. Closed and heavily taxed proprietary ecosystems should not receive any preference. That basically already exists on the desktop in the form of Electron apps. Those apps are universally hated because of it. Web technology is not suitable for making applications. It was designed to format text documents and…

I understand where you're coming from, but then I think about my daily work.

All of my documents, my spreadsheets, email, chat, and video calling is all done from my browser. I keep Emacs open for scratch just because I can't quit Emacs and I have a terminal open to run some servers. And this has been my working model for at least the last five to six years.

What's remarkable about it is that web apps are doing almost all of the heavy lifting of my work every day. I thought this was worth noting in the context of your comment that web technology is not suitable for making applications.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#614

Post by jdiff »

kelthuzad wrote: post #591
jdiff wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really haven't. You are up and down this thread saying these things, but you haven't already proven them or even addressed them. You have points, I agree that web technology is well suited in 2025 to make interactive applications. I agree that web apps are being held back from expressing their true potential. And while Electron is largely skewered for being bloated and heavy, the web can be fast and fluid. But yo…

I already responded to any of your points that are relevant to the core discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44694037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44692287 For the rest refer to https://whatpwacando.today

You still haven't. The whole point of my comment is that you haven't, and I brought up specific points that remain un-addressed by any of your comments in your thread, despite your insistence. Linking to comments that largely consist of the next layer of "I already addressed your points elsewhere!" is not a response. The world exists beyond Apple, and "Apple decrees it" is not a sufficient to explain much of your claims.

If you don't care to engage with the substance of my points, fine, nobody is owed discussion, but this style of conversation is deeply unproductive and I believe even you are losing track of what you have and haven't said.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#615

Post by 7thaccount »

tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

Thank you for trying to resist app-insanity. It really sucks that my doctor's office tries to get me to use one. No, I don't want to download an app for the one time I need it each year. Just make a freaking website. There are some exceptions like a calculator app that is completely offline.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#616

Post by velocity3230 »

simondotau wrote: post #13
moron4hire wrote: post #3

> Some apps can even record audio I have started to think this is the real reason why so many apps have a messaging and voice chat features, not so they can orifice this services to you, but so you'll grant the access so they can spy on you and sell it to advertisers. I randomly decided to try my hand at pottery using clay I've dug up from my yard. Talked about this in person with a few people, but hadn't posted anyw…

For what it’s worth, iPhone shows a visible notification whenever the microphone is actively used. While you’re within an app, this will show as a small orange dot. If an app attempts to use the microphone in the background, it’ll appear similarly to a phone call, but orange or red in colour.

The same is true for Android.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#618

Post by velocity3230 »

fugalfervor wrote: post #228
urbandw311er wrote: post #8

Don’t forget the ability to send push notifications. I think that’s one of the main reasons — it turns your whole relationship with a product on its head: you lose control over when you’re engaging, instead they can literally push their services and ads on you.

On Android/Graphene, I recommend permanently turning on do not disturb and adding apps to the allowlist. Opt in to notifications, rather than opting out.

Or just disable notifications for the various apps you don't want to hear from.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#619

Post by matt_kantor »

ant_li0n wrote: post #603
zelphirkalt wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people don't know how to use a computer well. Most people are just slightly above computer-illiterate. They were introduced to phones which have apps. Now in their minds that's how everything must be. Anything else induces fear into their minds. While technically competent people might go: "Oh neat, I don't even need to install an app, if I just put the website icon onto my home screen." Most users are like: "Oh…

You come off like a dick, but it's really true. I saw a tweet where some Zoomer was roasting an "Elder Millenial" for switching devices from a mobile phone to a desktop when making a big purchase (airline tickets? I forget). I didn't feel like wading into that argument (what's the point? like spitting in a campfire), but... yeah. Some folks say that we are regressing wrt technological proficiency, but it's really jus…

This may not be relevant to the tweet, but big purchases can involve price discrimination, so making the same purchase from a different device/browser/location could get a better price.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#620

Post by llm_nerd »

frollogaston wrote: post #107
llm_nerd wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like Apple is some lazy target for people to point to why PWAs have little uptake. Android has long had PWA support. Almost no one uses it at all. In fact iOS users have long had significantly high web browser usage than their Android compatriots. "It's because iOS doesn't support it...somehow. Despite entirely separate bases that could be served in entirely different ways, it's actually Apple's fault" A coupl…

Apps are normally made semi cross-platform nowadays. Not much point in maintaining a PWA that's effectively an Android-only app. But even aside from Apple's lack of support, the PWA standard seems kinda bad. Weird boilerplate like the serviceworker.js even if all you want is to make it addable to home screen.

>Apps are normally made semi cross-platform nowadays

"normally" is carrying a lot of water there. While the back-end is shared, obviously, a large number of orgs have two distinct fully native development projects for the platforms. There are zero empirical metrics I can cite, but in my experience the cross platform thing is a minority. Cross platform tooling is often the talk among the aspirational "One day I'm going to write a novel, and then a hit app" sorts, but it just doesn't dominate in the actual industry.

But if it did, Flutter dominates the cross-platform world, and what do you know, Flutter can generate PWA apps.

>But even aside from Apple's lack of support

Apple has supported PWA for a couple of years. It was a lazy excuse by cheerleaders who had nothing factual, but Apple supporting PWAs didn't move the needle at all. Because it turns out that a billion Android devices not being targeted with PWAs had literally nothing to do with Apple.

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