Live data from Hacker News

Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

petapixel.com

611–620 of 784 posts

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a new a Twitter/Bluesky replacement is to promote civil discourse, it will need to _restrict_ reach as a core feature. Which... seems antithetical to a social media platform. But as long as "enragement = engagement" holds true, each new social media platform will eventually devolve into the same kind of cesspool as its predecessors.

But...restricted reach is exactly how Bluesky works. People you follow show up in your feed, and only them. You can look at other feeds that are not as restricted, but you are making that choice.

Bluesky has the "Discover" feed that is definitely not only people you follow (sometimes, when it feels like it, they'll be on top of it).

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#612

As a photographer, I have a love/hate relationship with Adobe. I’m not a fan of many aspects of their business, but Lightroom is a (sometimes) excellent product. On the one hand, I don’t have much sympathy for Adobe. On the other hand, this whole situation is why I am not on social media these days with the exception of HN and niche subreddits. Even if much of the criticism they receive is warranted, the social media…

Yup, I prefer Lightroom to Capture One, especially for film-related workflows. But I just can't go back to their predatory pricing practices, and the absolute malware of a programme that creative cloud is.

I switched to capture 1 due to how poorly adobe handles fujifilm raw file even today. Workflow wise it is basically the same functions just in different places. Doesn’t take long to get up and running.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly. What are you proposing? A coup to ban AI? Because that is the alternative to waiting for legislators and courts.

Never proposed a ban, the issue is copyright, use licensed inputs and I could care less. Pro AI people need to stop behaving like it’s a foregone conclusion that anything they do is right and protected from criticism because, as was pointed out, the legality of what is being done with unlicensed inputs, which is the majority of inputs, is still up for debate. I’m just calling attention to the double standard being ap…

But this is hardly limited to AI.

Copyright is full of grey areas and disagreement over its rules happen all the time. AI is not particularly special in that regard, except perhaps in scale.

Generally the way stuff moves forward is somebody tries something, gets sued and either they win or lose and we move forward from that point.

Ultimately "harm" and "legality" are very different things. Something could be legal and harmful - many things are. In this debate i think different groups are harmed depending on which side that "wins".

If you want to have a nuanced debate, the relavent issue is not if the input works are licensed - they obviously are not, but on the following principles:

- de minimis - is the amount of each individual copyrighted work too small to matter.

- is the AI just extracting "factual" information from the works separate from their presentation. After all each individual work only adjusts the model by a couple bytes. Is it less like copying the work or more like writing a book about the artwork that someone could later use to make a similar work (which would not be copyright infringement if a human did it)

- fair use - complicated, but generally the more "transformative" a work is, the more fair use it would be, and AI is extremely transformative. On the other hand it potentially competes commercially with the original work, which usually means less likely to be fair use (and maybe you could have a mixed outcome here, where the AI generators are fine, but using them to sell competing artwork is not, but other uses are ok).

[Ianal]

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#614

I just don't get how Adobe didn't get dethroned after being so unpopular for so long. There are so many Photoshop competitors, many of which are quite good, they seem to be ripe for disruption. The last version I used was CS6, which came out more than a decade ago, and even that had more than a good enough feature set. Blender is slowly taking over 3D, why can't 2D be disrupted similarly?

I'm pretty sure it's because just about every applicable art school has enforced their student's output to be done in adobe's products - meaning that Adobe has a firm grip on the educator's market. As the saying goes, hook them in when they're young and they'll be too lazy and vested to move away from their products for a lifetime.

And on top of that, if your clients are Adobe users, you probably will have to be as well or you risk what they send you not opening properly.

Back in the Creative Suite days, my parents (small graphic design studio) upgraded largely because a client upgraded and they needed to be compatible with the newer version of the file format. Creative Cloud "fixed" that, I guess.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they sue? Just send it to collections and let them sort it out?

Collections rarely does anything. I mean they will nag you, but you ask them to only contact you in writing, and it basically goes away. The collection agency could sue you, but it's rare. It involves putting together a realistic case (we are sure this person signed this contract and owes us $X) and that is expensive. The billing your credit card 50% is a "well we tried" type thing. They're happy if it works out, but…

In the US, a collection on your credit report can tank your FICO score by more than 100 points, affecting your ability to borrow at the best rate, rent a home, or get certain jobs. This would be a very risky move if the purchase was made in such a way that you are personally liable.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With AI prompters, the output is part function of the (very small) prompt, part function of the (huuuuuuuge) training set, part randomness. With photographers, the output is part function of the (very small) orientation of the camera and pressing the button, part function of the (huuuuuuuge) technical marvel that are modern cameras, part randomness. Let's be realistic here. Without the manufactured cameras, 99.9% o…

Ludicrous rebuttal. Reducing this to "orientation of the camera" is such a dismissive take on the eye and focus of the person that decides to take a picture, where/when he/she is; this is really revealing you do not practice it. And... before cameras were even electronic, back in the early 2000, there were already thousands and more of extremely gifted photographers. Yes, cameras are marvellous tools. But they are _s…

> Reducing this to "orientation of the camera" is such a dismissive take

What's more important: the person behind the camera or the camera? Show me the photos taken without the camera and then look at all the great photos taken by amateurs.

> They require training sets to be anywhere near useful.

And the camera needs assembly and R&D. But when either arrives at your door, it's "ready to go".

> Cameras _do not_ feed on all the previous photographies taken by others.

Cameras do feed on all the research of previous cameras though. The photos don't matter to the Camera. The Camera manufacturers are geniuses, the photographers are users.

It's really not far off from AI, especially when the cameras do so much, and then there's the software-tools afterwards etc etc.

Yeah, yeah, everybody wants to feel special and artsy and all that and looks down on the new people who aren't even real artists. But most people really shouldn't.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it implies is, it's not really about ethics per se, just like it's not really about 6th digits per se. People hate AI images, cut and dry. Law is agreeable hate, in a way. Things that gets enough hate will get regulated out, sooner or later.

> People hate AI images, cut and dry. People hate bad AI images, because they hate bad images , period. They don't hate good AI images, and when they see great AI images, they don't even realize they are made by AI. It's true, there's a deluge of bad art now, and it's almost entirely AI art. But it's not because AI models exist or how they're trained - it's because marketers[0] don't give a fuck about how people feel…

> They don't hate good AI images, and when they see great AI images, they don't even realize they are made by AI.

There's a decent size group of people who have a knee-jerk negative response toward AI regardless of quality. They'd see that image, like it, and then when told it's AI, turn on it and decide it was obviously flawed from the beginning. Is there a version of "sour grapes" where the fox did eat the grapes, they were delicious, but he declared they were sour after the fact to claim moral superiority?

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#618
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can just get a card with a fake adress?

https://support.google.com/googlepay/answer/11234179?hl=en&c...

Those don’t have a fake address. You still have to put the right name and billing to pass verification.

A prepaid Visa/MC/Amex gift card might work, but those are easily blockable. I’d expect Adobe to do so.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People hate AI images, cut and dry. People hate bad AI images, because they hate bad images , period. They don't hate good AI images, and when they see great AI images, they don't even realize they are made by AI. It's true, there's a deluge of bad art now, and it's almost entirely AI art. But it's not because AI models exist or how they're trained - it's because marketers[0] don't give a fuck about how people feel…

I haven't seen a single AI image that were good let alone great . To be completely honest, I can't always tell , but when I come across images that give me inexplicable gastric discomfort that I can't explain why, and then it was revealed that it had been AI generated, that explains it all(doesn't remove the discomfort, just explains it). I don't have reasons to believe that I have above-average eyes on art among HNe…

> I'm no Hayao "I sense insult to life itself" Miyazaki

He was saying that in response to a computer-animated zombie that dragged itself along in a grotesque manner. It wasn't that it was animated by a computer, it was that he found it offensive in that it felt like it was making light of the struggles of people with disabilities. You definitely would also find it disgusting.

Re: Adobe deletes Bluesky posts after backlash

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an amazingly toxic, selfish attitude that you have. Is this how you really live your life? It wasn't "their customers" that brigaded. It is the clowns who have decided that Bluesky is their own. They are the ones that will keep it from hitting mainstream, and hopefully the service crushes their obnoxious activism.

Who cares if someone is toxic towards Adobe? It's a corporate brand, people should be allowed to voice what the feel about a fucking brand . Adobe could have sincerely communicated while blocking any abusive stuff or if they couldn't be arsed, turned off comments. They have PR people to handle this stuff, or at least they did until it was probably left up to some underpain intern who doesn't give a shit.

Toxicity and brigading is the problem. Moral toxicity and brigading, where people think they are doing some good, is even worse.

I'm not crying crocodile tears for Adobe. They shouldn't have deleted their post, and ultimately they just shrugged and decided that bsky didn't matter yet and just abandoned it for now.

Which serves no one, but it's what you get when a small number of twats who think they're the bully squad ruin a platform.

Post reply on HN