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Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

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Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#611

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

surgical_fire wrote: post #601
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imposing tariffs and threatening annexation of former allies is not a great start. I'm against annexation of Greenland as I stated elsewhere: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43460070 The US, as a sovereign country, has just as much right to levy taxes on imports as any other country.

> I'm against annexation of Greenland You, personally, being against it means little, when your president openly threatens it. > The US, as a sovereign country, has just as much right to levy taxes on imports And other countries, in their own sovereignty, have just as much right to retaliate with tarriffs of their own, and do trade deals amongst themselves.

>You, personally, being against it means little, when your president openly threatens it.

You can discount all of my opinions due to me not being president then :-)

>And other countries, in their own sovereignty, have just as much right to retaliate with tarriffs of their own, and do trade deals amongst themselves.

Agreed.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#612

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

amarcheschi wrote: post #583
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another commenter in this thread explaining how I need to 'deal with it' and be humble about the US' global position: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43462237 It sure seems like they think the US has an obligation to stay. That's the subtext of a lot of what Europeans are saying online.

Well, of course by losing the global throne us will lose a lot, the biggest economy in the world can't (like, it won't happen, not like legally can't) literally be like Switzerland that is surrounded by more or less allies and doesn't have to protect much of its global interests. By the way, your rants make me think you're spending a bit too much time online, online you'll find a lot of people just bashing whatever y…

>Well, of course by losing the global throne us will lose a lot, the biggest economy in the world can't (like, it won't happen, not like legally can't) literally be like Switzerland that is surrounded by more or less allies and doesn't have to protect much of its global interests.

The US economy was doing great prior to WW1/WW2, back when we deliberately tried to stay out of European geopolitics.

>By the way, your rants make me think you're spending a bit too much time online, online you'll find a lot of people just bashing whatever you say in a rude way

You didn't argue against tossandthrow. I don't see any Europeans arguing against him, in fact. I think a lot of Europeans think like he does.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#613

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Timon3 wrote: post #587
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It honestly doesn't have a bearing on my political leanings regarding America, especially since there are also many nice and wonderful Americans I interact with. OK, well, can you understand if some of your countrymen didn't wish to send troops to America's next Iraq, due to the xenophobia they experienced? That's just human nature regardless of what country you're from. That's what I've been trying to explain. You…

> OK, well, can you understand if some of your countrymen didn't wish to send troops to America's next Iraq, due to the xenophobia they experienced? Sure! But has this ever not been the case? I think it's reasonable to assume that some level of xenophobia has always existed. So why are you suddenly so hurt about it? Could it be that platforms are deliberately showing you more and more of that, while not showing you p…

>Could it be that platforms are deliberately showing you more and more of that, while not showing you positive interactions?

Doubtful. The platforms I'm talking about are mostly HN and /r/worldnews. There's no recommendation engine for either of those. And I don't see other Europeans arguing against this stuff, either.

I elaborated further here regarding why online discussion matters: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43477385

>Right now it seems more likely that these same Americans will be fighting with Russia against us, so I hope you can accept that I have very little love left for American "patriotism" right now. Maybe try not threatening allies and dividing the spoils with our shared enemies, that would certainly help.

I certainly wouldn't want the US fight with Russia against Europe. I highly doubt that will happen. But if you like, you can view my "American patriotism that Europe loves to belittle" comment as an explanation of how we got to this situation.

>Okay, but why is this suddenly such a big deal? You're apparently not perturbed by American xenophobia against us, why did you suddenly become so sensitive?

I am perturbed. But to be honest, I'm skeptical that you received much American xenophobia, especially compared to the oceans of anti-Americanism that have been washing across the internet for ages. If you want to show me an example, maybe that will help me understand.

In any case, it's not the anti-Americanism that gets to me so much as the ingratitude. The US has been one of Ukraine's biggest supporters. Yet even when Biden was president, there was a lot of anti-US sentiment in Ukraine discussions, because they wanted even more. They never mentioned countries such as Brazil which gave hardly anything. The US was probably their #2 most hated country after Russia.

I'm arguing for the principle that people who do good things should be appreciated rather than disdained. I see that as a prerequisite for any sort of prosocial society, or a prosocial world order. That's much more important to me than anti-Americanism. In cases where I believe anti-Americanism is justified, it doesn't bother me nearly as much.

So many of these US policies like supporting NATO were justified on the basis of gaining "soft power". The reality is that soft power isn't worth very much, and in the modern world, trying to do good things actually reduces American soft power, not increases it.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#614

Post by flowerlad »

dcow wrote: post #318
fuzzy_biscuit wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know I'm being pedantic, but the parent comment said 'uneducated', not stupid, and while it's certainly true that some use those interchangeably, I do not see them as such.

In any event, the GP’s comment still holds. The narrative that Trump is just a populist for the uneducated masses is really really… toxic.

Toxic? Let’s review:

US withdrawal from Climate Agreement, vaccine sceptic being made secretary of health, US alienating Europe, proposed ethnic cleansing of Gaza, lying about who started the Ukraine war. Cutting funds to USAID. Threatening to take Greenland by force. Threatening to annex Canada. Proclaiming himself to be King. Constantly "joking" about third term.

Does any of this seem toxic to you? Would educated people support these actions?

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#615

Post by flowerlad »

krapp wrote: post #247
flowerlad wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SV billionaires did vote for him yes, but not HN crowd.

HN has a large Trumpist contingent, plenty of people here voted for him, if only to vote against "wokism."

And this is what they got:

NIH cuts, US withdrawal from Climate Agreement, vaccine sceptic being made secretary of health, US alienating Europe, proposed ethnic cleansing of Gaza, lying about who started the Ukraine war. Cutting funds to USAID. Threatening to take Greenland by force. Threatening to annex Canada. Proclaiming himself to be King. Constantly "joking" about third term.

In retrospect is this what you voted for?

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#616

Post by username135 »

leereeves wrote: post #451
username135 wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean of the people that voted? Or of the population? Both are different figures and both would be incorrect. A very quick search; https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2020/08/18/men-and-w...

That link is from 2020. Can you find something from 2024?

Probably, can you?

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#617

Post by ace_of_spades »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #542
leokennis wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Europe was of the understanding that the "ongoing deal" was mutually beneficial. The US paid by far the most for defense and so had by far the most influence and power in the world, and the peace (at least in the Western world) that US defense brought made sure both the US and the EU could freely trade and benefit financially. What now changed is that apparently the US thinks it does not need this hegemony an…

>The US paid by far the most for defense and so had by far the most influence and power in the world That's the thing, Americans have become very skeptical of our own influence and power, for good reason. Look what we did to the Middle East. Look at the shenanigans we were funding with USAID. There isn't actually a constituency for this imperialism stuff in the US. US voters don't like it. In any case -- if we had so…

Ok, let’s hope you are right on the anti-imperialism front and that the US citizens will not tolerate all that saber rattling against Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal…

or maybe you are just misunderstanding and rationalizing what’s going on to tell yourself that everything is going fine on the US politics side of things while the rest of the world is waking up to the fact that you voted a narcissistic authoritarian into office.

Let’s hope you are right!

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#618

Post by Timon3 »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #613
Timon3 wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> OK, well, can you understand if some of your countrymen didn't wish to send troops to America's next Iraq, due to the xenophobia they experienced? Sure! But has this ever not been the case? I think it's reasonable to assume that some level of xenophobia has always existed. So why are you suddenly so hurt about it? Could it be that platforms are deliberately showing you more and more of that, while not showing you p…

>Could it be that platforms are deliberately showing you more and more of that, while not showing you positive interactions? Doubtful. The platforms I'm talking about are mostly HN and /r/worldnews. There's no recommendation engine for either of those. And I don't see other Europeans arguing against this stuff, either. I elaborated further here regarding why online discussion matters: https://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

> The platforms I'm talking about are mostly HN and /r/worldnews. There's no recommendation engine for either of those.

Sorry, if you really think there's no "recommendation engine" behind Reddit, I can't help you.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#619

Post by surgical_fire »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #611
surgical_fire wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm against annexation of Greenland You, personally, being against it means little, when your president openly threatens it. > The US, as a sovereign country, has just as much right to levy taxes on imports And other countries, in their own sovereignty, have just as much right to retaliate with tarriffs of their own, and do trade deals amongst themselves.

>You, personally, being against it means little, when your president openly threatens it. You can discount all of my opinions due to me not being president then :-) >And other countries, in their own sovereignty, have just as much right to retaliate with tarriffs of their own, and do trade deals amongst themselves. Agreed.

> Agreed

And that, friend, is called a trade war.

Good that we made some progress here.

Re: Millions are visiting the European Alternatives site. What trends are we seeing?

#620

Post by 0xDEAFBEAD »

Timon3 wrote: post #618
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Could it be that platforms are deliberately showing you more and more of that, while not showing you positive interactions? Doubtful. The platforms I'm talking about are mostly HN and /r/worldnews. There's no recommendation engine for either of those. And I don't see other Europeans arguing against this stuff, either. I elaborated further here regarding why online discussion matters: https://news.ycombinator.com/ite…

> The platforms I'm talking about are mostly HN and /r/worldnews. There's no recommendation engine for either of those. Sorry, if you really think there's no "recommendation engine" behind Reddit, I can't help you.

I go directly to /r/worldnews and look at the top posts. Oftentimes I'm not even logged in.

BTW, if you disagree with other Europeans in this thread, why are you arguing with me instead of them?

You mostly don't seem to be stating points of disagreement with them, or points of agreement with me. I can infer a lot from that :-)

Anyways, if you truly think there is a serious risk that the US sides with Russia, then hopefully we at least agree that the US should pull all its troops out of Europe. That should reduce the risk to you guys.

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