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Layoffs Don't Work

thehustle.co

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Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#611

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

Layoffs save money. They work for that purpose. Perhaps the blog post assumes some other purpose. I am not getting it. This appears to be nothing more than complaining, not "real talk". But being published from a domainname like "thehustle.co", nonsensical gibberish comes as no suprise.

If the title was "Tech Companies Don't Work", then this might be a good segue into discussing layoffs. For example, layoffs could be evidence of so-called "tech company" dysfunction or mismanagement. But, for some, the "outlier amounts of money" suggest these companies do "work". If the companies survive after layoffs, then clearly layoffs do "work" for the purpose intended.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#612

Post by mym1990 »

bbqfog wrote: post #292
andrewlgood wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than the manager who has spent years developing an employee - making sure they are getting the experiences they need to build a better career, hiring the right people to complement the team, fighting for bonuses and pay raises - only to have them quit to join the next company for a 10% raise. It is difficult to build a long-term culture when society seems to expect job hopping to rapidly advance…

An experienced manager would know that is how the game is played and act accordingly. Don't get emotionally attached to any work relationships. It's transactional, keep that in mind.

I think there is always going to be a middle ground. We are not robots and if the people I work with are a pleasure to be around and work with, there is a natural connection there that can be labeled "emotional" I guess, but it is very much in the moment for me. I want my manager to be somewhat invested in my success, and I somewhat reciprocate that. Additionally, while the business is transactional, it is almost always the case that the employer has more information than you, making it an uphill battle in the first place.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#613

Post by tocs3 »

giantg2 wrote: post #602
tocs3 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know and it is a good question. Maybe we need three or four wage earners per household. Maybe 60-70 hour work weeks. I would like to hear some ideas that does not include more grinding down workers for GDP. Maybe another measure for a health society. Growth certainly help lots of people but when an economy is mature maybe more is not necessarily better, at least for the average worker.

The main thing is that the share of GDP per worker has gone down, meaning the distribution is skewed. But I agree that there isn't a good option that I've heard to change this without other negative side effects.

Then I suppose increasing wages is a good option as well as adding workers are both options and more paid leave).

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#614

Post by j7ake »

filoleg wrote: post #160
Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

Nobody on your team had kids or dependents?

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#615

Post by andrewlgood »

int_19h wrote: post #539
andrewlgood wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the ones being discussed in the article are the consistent ones. I worked at GE when Jack Welch was there. First of all we never had a systematic firing of the bottom 10%. That is a myth. We ranked everyone each year and clearly identified the bottom 10% but they were not always fired. The manager did have to have a development plan for these individuals. More importantly, GE did have consistent layoffs. I asse…

> The manager did have to have a development plan for these individuals. What percentage of people on PIPs didn't leave the company within a year or two?

My recollection is a very high percentage. Not clear what the alternative is. No action plans to help people improve their performance? Action plans also helped people understand their situation and allowed them to find other jobs while they were still employed at GE. For clarity, I never developed an action plan for someone who was then surprised to receive it.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#616

Post by Izkata »

int_19h wrote: post #523
clusterhacks wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that perception that people chronically job hop is not true? I would welcome a data source that shows chronic job hopping is the norm. Anecdotally speaking, I spent 6+ish years at my first "old tech" company. My org in this (very large) company was constantly simmering with resource actions (mostly small scale layoffs). There was lots of negative energy there. I left to take a programming/data analytics gig in…

I worked at Microsoft 2009-2024 and I've seen it a lot. It's rather telling when your own manager tells you that if you want fast promos and raises, the best way to do so is to switch companies every few years. And I've had more than one manager say that. I know many people who did several rounds of Microsoft -> Google -> Amazon -> Microsoft or the like. That said, I don't think one can blame the devs for it, since i…

> It's rather telling when your own manager tells you that if you want fast promos and raises, the best way to do so is to switch companies every few years.

This is different than what GP asked, it excludes anyone who might prefer stability over fast raises. Are the job-hoppers the majority, or are they just more visible because they're always interviewing?

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#617

Post by margalabargala »

andrewlgood wrote: post #606
margalabargala wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the person you originally replied to mentioned having a disability, and your response was "yeah but you have kids so really you chose this and also I disagree that life is harder for some people." The generous interpretation would be that you have sufficiently good health that you do not have to structure your life around it, and therefore lack understanding of the challenges faced by those who do. The alternat…

I actually agreed with them that a disability makes life harder. I then pointed out other things that an individual did not choose can make life harder as well. As for bringing up children, I did make the leap that that is generally a big difference between younger employees and older employees.

> I do disagree with your assertion that “Life is much harder for some of us.”

It sounds like what you think you wrote, is not in fact the words of yours that everybody has been reading.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#618

Post by nis0s »

The most direct way that the U.S. government can control inflation is via layoffs of federal workers. Private companies are jumping on the bandwagon to get rid of hires made during more booming times. The fact is that higher interest rates have cooled down investments, which factors into the decisions made by companies to fire staff. Note though that companies which actually build stuff, like Apple, are adding jobs, instead.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#619

Post by johnnyanmac »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

Keep in mind that only the most extreme, financially focused workers are doing what you describe. Like ones that are young and single.

In addition, let's not pretend thos also isn't by design from the companies. They stopped doing tenure based rewards and are harder than ever to get a raise from. Those people are simply reacting to the terms the companies set.

Re: Layoffs Don't Work

#620

Post by johnnyanmac »

filoleg wrote: post #160
Workaccount2 wrote: post #150

Real talk here, and I'm sorry for being "that guy" Why do tech workers get so wrapped around the axle of layoffs when most people are in a chronic state of tech job hopping? I know multiple people who have worked their entire career thus far without ever staying at a place for more than 3 or 4 years. Some no more than two. Tech job culture is practically a mono culture with "hop jobs" being a hallmark. From an employ…

I cannot speak for layoffs in all industries ever, but I agree with your assessment of layoffs in big tech from personal experiences. I have way too many “lifer” friends in big tech who are deadly scared of layoffs and job hopping. They are also the ones who rarely got promoted and havent had a significant pay bump pretty much ever. On another hand, half my team at a big tech company got laid off back at the start of…

Yeah, that was the situation until 2023. This market is absolutely brutal and there's no guarantee of an offer in 6+ months, even for roles you'd get in a month.

I wanted to be a "lifer" (you don't build expertise jumping jobs every 2 years) but I more or less knew going into games that that was never going to truly be the case. But this bad market only amplifies the issues.

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