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FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

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Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make the rule such that if you can sign up for a service on a website you can also cancel it said website. Now your hypothetical landscaping company is safe

Are they? A very basic website can easily have a form you can fill to sign up and all it does on the back end is send an email with the info to the proprietors. Even a generic mailto: or tel: link arguably makes it possible to sign up via the website, if tapping the link on your phone to send a message can directly result in a signup. To do the same thing for cancellations you'd have trouble avoiding the need for cus…

If you can have a signup form you can also have a cancel form.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#612

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Why is a law needed to address this? Isn't the market supposed to adjust for companies like this?

Because of the existing laws that allow companies to harass you if you don't pay what they think you owe them. Not to mention all the laws like copyright which prevent free competition in many spaces.

In a truly free market cancellation would be implicit by no longer paying.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#613
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it can get really easy: just don't let this madness sprawl out of control? :) per state, I understand the tax. set it per state, and be done with it. maybe split it in some % with the city (I don't know if cities directly get a portion of it already or not?), so it's a win-win.

Maybe that works. I have concerns about IP geolocation databases being able to pin me down to a particular state, but maybe. But even assuming "good enough" IP geolocation exists: In order for this to be implemented both uniformly and nationally, we'd need a new constitutional amendment that would grant the federal government the ability to regulate how sales taxes work within states. Because right now, we have this:…

The federal government doesn't need to legislate sales tax, just require it to be included in the display price. For physical stores this is trivial. For online stores geolocation + manual override works well enough elsewhere. Number of sales tax jurisdictions is irrelevant - either companies deal with it like they deal in areas with many smaller countries or they lobby their local city / state to fix the mess.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#614
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this what small claims court is for?

So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a small claim? That there is recourse is beside the point when it is mired in bureaucracy (not to mention taking days off to show up to court, etc).

Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By what legal means is this happening? Article I, section 1 of the Constitution: ‘All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.’ It doesn’t say, ‘Congress may delegate its legislative Powers to the Executive.’ Arguably, the ‘shall’ language forbids that! Article I, section 8 does give the Congress the authority…

While complimentary, the various policy, legislating, rules making, procedures, and enforcement are distinct activities in the governmental stack. By necessity, legislators delegate rule making to agencies. Who do you want determining the precise definition of a kilogram? Congress or NIST? By necessity, some rules have the force of law. Like how many state's Secretaries of State are entrusted with clearly scoped esse…

> While complimentary, the various policy, legislating, rules making, procedures, and enforcement are distinct activities in the governmental stack.

I agree that there are distinct activities. In our system, there are three distinct activities: lawmaking, law execution and law application; they correspond to the legislative, executive and judicial branches of government.

It’s clear to me that regulations with the force of law must be passed by the Congress, while regulations applied within the executive without the force of law may be promulgated by the executive.

> By necessity, legislators delegate rule making to agencies.

I don’t see that it is in any way necessary, and I do see that it is extremely dangerous to a republican system of government. Every member of the executive ultimately answers to a single man: the President. If the Congress enables the President to dictate the content of a law, then that one man is a dictator.

The Founders did not want a king, and the Constitution does not allow one. Again, to quote the document: ‘All [emphasis added] legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress …’ Not some legislative powers, but all.

> Who do you want determining the precise definition of a kilogram? Congress or NIST?

It’s not about what you or I want; it’s about what the supreme law of the land allows.

As it happens, it wouldn’t bother me if Congress set the definition of the kilogram. Why would it bother you?

> Do you really want legislators doing the technical and operational evaluation of tabulators?

Again, it’s not about what I want, but what the law requires. In the case of tabulation, that seems pretty clearly an executive responsibility. The rules for tabulation seem to be pretty clearly a legislative responsibility.

If one doesn’t like that arrangement, then one is free to advocate for changing the Constitution! An amendment such as ‘The President or his delegate may issue a law defining weights and measures’ would work. I think that it’d be a bad idea, because it gives too much authority to one man (imagine if some future president issued a law defining that any use of the meter is to be punished with death …).

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#616

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

[dead]

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. With any such service, I budget 1 hour. If I can't get cancellation within that time-frame I have a standard form letter that gets sent out. Once the letter is sent, after the current billing cycle ends any additional charges from said service are disputed (either on the card or on bank account) as fraud. On three occasions, I've been asked to provide proof of fraud. I've emailed a scan of the cancellation le…

Honestly, if it works, why not send the letter first and not waste an hour on the phone?

Or even more importantly, why aren't lawyers and consumer protection organizations promoting and spreading this knowledge?

The lawyer field is captured and they know they'd get taken to court by other lawyers if they "recommended" such a thing, because their industry has made them liable for things they "recommend".

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think she's done such great work on the administrative side of things with junk fee bans, etc., but I feel like she has also burned an enormous amount of taxpayer money on lawsuits that don't have value (like suing Meta for acquiring the tiny VR fitness company). It feels like she's just against any acquisitions by large companies, and I think that's both too broad of a stance for the FTC to take (as opposed to rea…

Lawsuits are one of the few enforcement mechanisms the FTC has.

Of course, not disputing that, just saying that I think she uses that enforcement mechanism in a way that is more harmful than helpful to American consumers and the to the economy.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#619
post #3

An excellent change. It's unfortunate that stewardship of the committee will soon change hands as Khan has been a great advocate for fair contracts between companies and consumers during her tenure.

This whole new fantasy that billionaires know best for consumers is quite concerning.

The idea that these institutions, like FTC, are bad for consumers, and this new blind faith that things must be deregulated because the market will solve it for the better is going to be interesting.

By the way, when things turn bad, it's we who will pay the price again for this deregulation, not billionaires. It's like people are choosing fantasy and magical thinking over History... 2008 wasn't that long ago.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#620

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Agree to both. And both are incredibly easy problems to solve. For the first just have a law that says: > Any advertised price must include all mandatory taxes and fees. No exceptions. For the second just have a law that says: > An end user must be allowed to use the same method to cancel as they used to sign up for the service. No exceptions. Additionally, an end user cannot be required to perform more manual action…

No normal humans are against those simple ideas. Problem is that congress is so easy and cheap to bribe that humans influence less than a majority of the votes in congress.
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