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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#611

Post by lupusreal »

AnonymousPlanet wrote: post #535
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

As a European I have to ask the very same questions about US apps and European interests. Even though I personally do not harbour strong suspicions towards the US, it's not a given that the US will always act favourably towards the EU, Europe as a whole, or any one particular EU country in the future. Especially in light of recent elections.

Europe should ban American social media companies. They'd be doing themselves a favor, and a favor to most Americans as well (who, shareholders excepted, do not personally benifit from these tech corps being so massive.)

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#612

Post by tw1984 »

Cookingboy wrote: post #532
Retric wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was intentionally designed to have 15 second clips competing for attention, which is the path to brain rot. The’ve slowly increased video length, which will impact what’s on the platform over time. Also, Ticktock content is curated to fit CCP’s narrative not simply an algorithmic reflection of what its users care about.

>Ticktock content is curated to fit CCP’s narrative not simply an algorithmic reflection of what its users care about. If you can show evidence of that you should give it to the U.S. government, because it has repeatedly said there is no evidence of such and any threat remains hypothetical.

> If you can show evidence of that you should give it to the U.S. government

Tens of millions of teenage Americans are addicted to it is the evidence. Chinese don't allow their kids to waste all day long on stupid douyin, Americans don't have such luxuries, as tons of red necks are going to jump up and label it as anti free speech if you want something similar. As a result, you see Chinese kids spend time on STEM subjects, building toy robots and learning how to code AI stuff while American kids are all dreaming to be the most popular influencer on social media.

The whole system is an algorithm carefully designed. Let's just be honest. btw, Chinese national posting from China here, you'd be seeing me protesting in the Tiananmen Square if some American social media apps manage to waste Chinese teens time while being carefully restricted in the US for their own kids. It is just shocking to see it takes almost a decade for the US to actually start doing something concrete.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#613

Post by shlant »

NavinF wrote: post #596
shlant wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Secondly no, it's not illegal to spread misinformation, no matter the motive. The First Amendment absolutely guarantees that right. Again, does NOBODY know what the first amendment covers??? If you yell FIRE in a crowded theatre (misinformation) that is not covered by the 1st amendment[1]. Please stop talking confidently about something you don't understand. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_State…

Why did you cite a case that was overturned by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio The new ruling makes it clear that misinformation is legal under 1A

no the new ruling limited the scope of what is illegal. Inciting violence is not protected. Neither is defamation, fraud, or false advertising.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#614

Post by [deleted] »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #588
cess11 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think TikTok has more power in the US than the local oligarchs and warlords? Short-form video does more to "internal strife" than the lack of basic government services, widespread substance abuse and state violence?

I don’t know who specifically you mean by “local oligarchs and warlords”. Do I think TikTok has more power and influence in the US than the average Fortune 500 CEO? Without a doubt.

[deleted]

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#615

Post by Cthulhu_ »

franczesko wrote: post #406
kelnos wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is predicated on the idea that banning TikTok is censorship. It's not. No speech or information is being suppressed; any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms. This isn't like China where the government bans any services they can't control, and directs the services that they can control to suppress any information they don't want people talking about.

"any speech being made on TikTok can instead be made on other platforms" Tiktok is not banning certain topics, as other platforms do The elephant in the room, is that content on Tiktok is served algorithmicaly, so if majority of population prefer to watch brainwash content, it's due to their choice, not algorithm's

> Tiktok is not banning certain topics, as other platforms do

Oh but they do, or at the very least carefully steer what you see by demoting certain subjects; don't forget that only in 2020 their internal moderator policies were leaked, telling them to suppress posts by ugly, poor and disabled people [0], or suppress streams that "harmed national order" or "defamed civil servants". Sure, this was the Chinese branch of tiktok, and the US / EU based version has distanced themselves from it - already mostly being its own platform. But this is where they came from barely four years ago.

[0] https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#616

Post by lupusreal »

cess11 wrote: post #507
professor_v wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do we ensure that Tiktok doesn't covertly alter the algorithm to subtly include propaganda tailored to China's geopolitical interests that are detrimental to the US? Or even just propaganda tailored to enhance internal strife to weaken the country?

Do you really think TikTok has more power in the US than the local oligarchs and warlords? Short-form video does more to "internal strife" than the lack of basic government services, widespread substance abuse and state violence?

Traditional media is dead in the US. Joe Rogan dwarfs media midgets like CNN, in both ratings and shear influence. Most of this new media is still using platforms based in the US or friendly nations, but that balance of power could shift very quickly. The rapid rise of TikTok shows that the dominance of American platforms cannot be taken for granted, and so the government is reacting in a bipartisan manner to this threat.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#617

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Cookingboy wrote: post #581
dgfitz wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> … if you say TikTok is being banned for the possibility of "weaponized propaganda", then it is information being suppressed Eliminating weaponized propaganda is not even a little bit close to suppressing freedom of speech. Your argument falls apart there, like completely.

Except it is. The Supreme Court has actually ruled that the First Amendment rights for Americans to receive foreign propaganda, even during the Cold War: https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/lamont-v-postmaster-... I don't think you know what the First Amendment is. Not only does it guarantee freedom of expression, but also freedom to receive other's expression and speech. The U.S. government is not allowed to ban…

They may not legally be allowed to ban it, but that doesn't mean it has to be easy to access it. This is probably also why banning Tiktok was / is such a challenge and couldn't just be done with Trump's exective order after Zucc whispered it in his ear in 2019, and why they can't just block it, but have to subpoena the app stores to delist it.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#618

Post by Cthulhu_ »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #185
brookst wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. If censorship is wrong, then it is wrong. If censorship is just fine, the n it is just fine. It is the height of hypocrisy to engage in censorship in the name of stamping out censorship. It feels like a tautology because the opposing viewpoint is a very simple hypocrisy. If you don’t like something, don’t do it.

It’s not a censorship issue. It’s about market access. This is a commercial dispute not a freedom of expression one. There is plenty of other platforms where you will still be able to say whatever you want.

Not Twitter or Truth Social though.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#619

Post by nswest23 »

close04 wrote: post #604
gradus_ad wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and the US are in a deepening cold war. Our political systems are fundamentally opposed so conflict is inevitable (given there is no higher authority to manage our relations). If you are looking for some specific justification for a ban, you're missing the forest for the trees.

> Our political systems The rift has nothing to do with the political system (e.g. the US is freely and openly allied with Saudi Arabia despite radically different political systems), and everything to do with the competition for power and influence in the world. SA is not a real contender there, China is. From here the rift and inevitable conflict. > If you are looking for some specific justification for a ban, you'…

> power and influence

good observation but it's probably both. The EU is a significant center of power and influence but so far the US hasn't started banning bidets.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#620

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tw1984 wrote: post #477
Keyframe wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

censorship schmensorship. This is more banal than that. China bans US companies from doing business in China. This is quid pro quo. Chinese companies, of the same industry, are getting banned in US.

Microsoft, Apple, Tesla are doing extremely well in China making hundreds of billions. Tesla even got free land and loans, aka Chinese government subsides. Name a few Chinese tech companies doing the same in the US? Maybe you are suggesting that Chinese should ban Tesla, Apple and Microsoft as well?

Yes, but under China's strict rules about doing business there; government oversight, Chinese senior management, party representative, etc.

I mean if Tiktok did the same thing in the US there probably would be less of an issue, but they are unwilling to allow the same restrictions / oversight as the US companies are subjecting themselves to in China.

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