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OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

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Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#611

This "running out of data" thing suggests that there is something fundamentally wrong with how things are working. A new driver does not need to experience 8000 different rabbit-on-road situations from all angles to know to slow down when we see one on the road. Similarly we don't need 10,000 addition examples to learn how to add. It is as though there is no generalization in the models - just fundamentally search.

i think you underestimate the amount of data a driver experiences in a single 5 minute drive

A charitable interpretation of what you're saying is that humans produce lots of original data from their experiences of the world, like thinking about their experiences, imagining what they would have done differently, and perhaps even dreaming. I agree with the root comment that something is fundamentally missing, and probably it is the ability to iteratively learn from one's own experiences, test understanding, and recursively improve.

There are definitely teams working on applying reinforcement learning to LLMs. Maybe that will unlock new potential from finite training data.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, because to me these headlines about how deep learning is over-hyped and hitting the wall remind me of headlines from ten years ago about how... deep learning is over-hyped and hitting the wall.

That was before people could generate animation and music.

And essays for homework assignments that would get a decent grade, art for the headings of blog posts, rewrites of an email to make it sound more professional, summaries of long documents, or just generally to create something that gives the semblance that you did a lot of work while actually having done very little work.

And yes of course hallucinations are a huge problem for most of these use cases, but they aren't stopping people from using them anyway. We have a new misinformation problem and it has no agenda. It's basically just white noise.

So my money is also on this changing the world dramatically, just not in the in uniformly positive way that the hype said it will.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#613

I am not sure how these large companies think they will reach "greater-than-human" intelligence any time soon if they do not create systems that financially incentivize people to sell their knowledge labor (unstable contracting gigs are not attractive). Where do these large "AI" companies think the mass amounts of data used to train these models come from? People! The most powerful and compact complex systems in exis…

This is the most interesting comment in this highly autistic field.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I see LLM as a power tool for domain experts, and you have to assume whatever it spits out may be wrong, and your process should allow for it." this gets to the heart of it for me. I think LLMs are an incredible tool, providing advanced augmentation on our already developed search capabilities. What advanced user doesnt want to have a colleague they can talk about their specific domain capacity with? The problem c…

Welcome to capitalism. The market forces will squeze max value out of them. I imagine that Anthropic and OpenAI will be in the future fully downsized and acquired by their main investors (Microsoft and Amazon) and will simply becoming part of their generic and faceless AI & ML Teams once the current downwards stage of the hype cycle completes it closure in the next 5-8 years.

> Welcome to capitalism. The market forces will squeze max value out of them.

What a ringing endorsement.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glib but the reality is that there are lots of cases where you can use an AI in writing but don’t need to entrust it with the whole job blindly. I mostly use AIs in writing as a glorified grammar checker that sometimes suggests alternate phrasing. I do the initial writing and send it to an AI for review. If I like the suggestions I may incorporate some. Others I ignore. The only times I use it to write is when I have…

>> have something like a status report and I’m having a hard time phrasing things I believe the above suggested that this type of email likely doesn't need to be sent. Is anyone really reading the status report? If they read it, what concrete decisions do they make based on it. We all get in this trap of doing what people ask of us but it often isn't what shareholders and customers really care about.

Considering that I do get questions and comments about the projects, yet, people are reading this.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#616

This "running out of data" thing suggests that there is something fundamentally wrong with how things are working. A new driver does not need to experience 8000 different rabbit-on-road situations from all angles to know to slow down when we see one on the road. Similarly we don't need 10,000 addition examples to learn how to add. It is as though there is no generalization in the models - just fundamentally search.

Deep learning is the very opposite of generalization.

it's not that simple

"""

Intuitively, an overparameterized model will generalize well if the model’s representations capture the essential information necessary for the best model in the model class to perform well

"""

https://iclr-blogposts.github.io/2024/blog/double-descent-de...

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#617
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, AGI means many different things to many different people but OpenAI defines it as "highly autonomous systems that outperform humans in most economically valuable tasks"

This definition suits OpenAI because it lets them claim AGI after reaching an arbitrary goal. LLMs already outperform humans in a huge variety of tasks. ML in general outperform humans in a large variety of tasks. Are all of them AGI? Doubtful.

At least it's a testable measurable definition. Everyone else seems to be down boring linguistic rabbit holes or nonstop goal post moving

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#618
post #399
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or being aware of how its utterances may come across to its interlocutor. I think this behavior is being somewhat demonstrated in newer models. I've seen GPT-3.5 175B correct itself mid response with, almost literally: > > Wait, that's not right, that . > . Later models seem to have much more awareness of, or "weight" towards, their own responses, while generating the response.

I'm assuming the "Wait" sentence is from the user. What I mean is that when humans say something, they also tend to have a view (maybe via the famous mirror neurons) of how this now sounds to the other person. They may catch themselves while speaking, changing course mid-sentence, or adding another sentence to soften or highlight something in the previous sentence, or maybe correcting or admitting some aspect after t…

> You won't get an LLM outputting "wait, that's not right" halfway through their original output

No, that's one contiguous response from the LLM. I have screenshots, because I was so surprised the first time. I've had it happen many times. This was (as I always use LLM) direct API calls. In the first case it happened, it was with largest Llama 3.5. It usually only happens one shot, no context, base/empty system prompt.

> LLMs don't exhibit such an inner feedback loop

That's not true, at all. Next token prediction is based on all previous text, including the previous word that was just produced. It uses what it has said for what it will say next, within the same response, just as a markov chain would.

Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#619
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way of proving awareness in humans let alone machines. We do not even know whether awareness exists or it is just a word that people made up to describe some kind of feeling.

Awareness is exhibited in behavior. It's exactly due to the behavior be observe from LLMs that we don't ascribe them awareness. I agree that it's difficult to define, and it's also not binary, but it's behavior we'd like AI to have and which LLMs are quite lacking.

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Re: OpenAI, Google and Anthropic are struggling to build more advanced AI

#620
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But a LLM can certainly make up a lot information that never existed before.

I strongly believe this gets into an information theoretical constraint akin to why perpetual motion machines don't work. In theory, yes you could generate an unlimited amount of data for the models, but how much of it is unique or valuable information? If you were to compress all this generated training data using a really good algorithm, how much actual information remains?

That's correct. I saw a paper recently that showed how LLMs performance collapses when they are trained on synthetic data.
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