Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction • Hacker News Board

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#611

Post by mrthrowaway999 » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

staunton wrote: post #597

mrthrowaway999 wrote: post #583

I'm sad to see so much venom in these comments. HN of old would have tried to delve into the details and find something to learn from this.

Let's keep trying. What learning opportunities do you see in the details here?

Just off the top of my head: every engineer should have 6+ months of savings. Market isn't great but our salaries can help build those savings easy.

If I had more time, I would love to understand the fss market better and also what impact ai is having there. I don't see a Q3 earnings report from Dropbox, but as others have pointed out in other comments, Dropbox seems to have been doing fine financially.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#612

Post by mulmen » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done

Do you have any evidence of this? There are unfounded claims of “productivity metrics” but I have never actually seen one.

E: I realize this is a poor choice of words after saying productivity metrics don’t exist. What I mean is my tasks are easier to complete in a WFH environment than they are in an office.

I have been far more productive from home. The constraints around communication necessitate effective documentation which enables asynchronous communication which alleviates scheduling challenges which improves delivery.

Maybe managers need to go in to the office to rub elbows but ICs definitely don’t.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#613

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

thayne wrote: post #451

echoangle wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder what gives these people the drive to continue. Maybe I’m lazy and lacking vision but if I were worth 2B, I don’t think I would go to the office every day just to get accused of mismanagement when I have to lay people off. I would take my yacht to the Caribbean and slack off.

I can understand wanting to continue doing something . What I don't understand is why instead of putting their time and now considerable wealth into more philanthropic pursuits, they decide to continue increasing their wealth, often at the expense of other, less fortunate people.

[deleted]

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#614

Post by nickff » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #564

njtransit wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A somewhat sensible take, but the issue isn’t just healthcare. A lot of your life is based off of long-term, fixed cost cash flow. E.g. you can’t pay less on your mortgage just because you got fired. Even with savings, getting laid off is highly disruptive, and, if done as part of a broader downturn in the market, you may never recover the required cash flow to enable your lifestyle.

Avoid lifestyle creep! I have to say I'm bad at this myself: somehow it all adds up, while each individual expense doesn't look so bad.

There are also different types of creep, some that you can easily stop, and others that are more difficult. Specifically, everything that involves a medium to long-term obligation (such as a mortgage or vehicle loan) can cause problems if you cannot sustain it through cashflow interruptions or significant declines. Going out to expensive restaurants and Broadway shows definitely costs a lot of money, but you can immediately stop them if you have money trouble.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#615

Post by progbits » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done

If you can't tell remote employees are slacking then you also can't tell if they are slacking in the office, you are just getting fooled by thinking presence implies work.

So tired of hearing this "argument".

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#616

Post by whatshisface » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

hankman86 wrote: post #463

The uncomfortable truth is that pretty much any business can cut staff by 20% without impacting overall performance. Provided that you manage to weed out the tail end of the performance bell curve that is. Most of the time, reducing staff is a healthy move for the business and the impacted employees. The company will not only save cost, but strengthen its culture of high performance. And under-achieving employees are…

They don't know which 20% needs to be cut. That's why they wait until something unrelated to their business internals (market downturn, other companies are cutting) happens to try.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#617

Post by mulmen » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:25 PM UTC

Brystephor wrote: post #596

dixie_land wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, I feel a lot of my coworkers fell under this trap: if you need cashflow for mortgage on your 4m mansion in (affluent neighborhood), you can't really afford it.

The only mortgages that don't require cashflow are the paid off mortgages. Even if someone has a year of savings, or two years, or three, after that amount is drained, they need cash flow again. So how does one buy a house without being dependent on cash flow?

Well the most obvious approach would be to pay cash.

The more fiscally conservative option is to only borrow money if you have capital which is earning income at a higher rate than the mortgage. This probably necessitates having more capital than the house costs.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#618

Post by jordanb » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #466

Remember how there used to be a blog (or maybe it was a Tumblr, I forget) that documented every "Our incredible journey" post that inevitably announced the start-up's closure? I think we need another one for "An update from ", as this has seemingly become the standard subject to use when you're announcing layoffs or data breaches. I saw an identical headline earlier today from Sony announcing a studio closure: https:…

"A difficult decision"

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#619

Post by sgerenser » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

benbayard wrote: post #587

spit2wind wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What regulatory scrutiny do you mean? They don't need to provide severance, as far as California law seems concerned. I'm not a Californian, but an Internet search shows they're an at-will state. So it seems like everything is on the (legal) level.

California has the WARN act which I believe requires notice of 50 days, which people usually use to give severance. In the USA when someone is told they will be fired, usually we do not keep them on staff so severance is the usual middle ground.

It's 60 days, not 50. But 60 days of severance would be significantly less than what they are offering. They're definitely not doing it strictly to avoid regulatory scrutiny, more like to avoid bad press and a bad reputation in the tech market. When things eventually swing back up, companies still want to be able to hire the best talent, they don't want to be grouped with companies like Twitter.

Re: Dropbox announces 20% global workforce reduction

#620

Post by stoniejohnson » Wed, Oct 30, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

not_your_vase wrote: post #608

tschellenbach wrote: post #551

The same forces that enable high tech salaries, also make layoffs more likely. - The market for talent is competitive. So companies bid up to the absolute max they can - The market for managers is also competitive. Creating dynamics that lead to larger teams and raises for team members - Companies allow things like remote work, which is a perk, but also has a lot of abuse in terms of how much work gets done The end r…

> high tech salaries Are they really high? They are not that different from UPS driver salaries. Just the other day I clicked on the website of some random law firm's career page. I wasn't happy with what I saw (in the context of my own career). Some researchers with 1 year of experience with starting salary of 450k+... tech salaries look high as long as you don't check other professions.

They were high in 2013.