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Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

mcc-berlin.net

611–620 of 910 posts

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have free parking? cities are making money out of parking spots. a lot of money. so much than one would say they have an incentive to reduce parking space to increase price and reduce expenses

Cities and councils should not be making decisions based on how to raise revenue. They should be making decisions based on how to improve quality of life for residents. Parking should exist where public transport is not a viable option. Ideally the work to make public transport an option should be prioritised over the work to making parking exist. Cities and councils can make money from public transport too, it'll wo…

> Cities and councils should not be making decisions based on how to raise revenue.

Why not?

> They should be making decisions based on how to improve quality of life for residents.

Residents can use money to purchase goods and services to improve their quality of life.

> Parking should exist where public transport is not a viable option.

And the market can provide parking at market-prices. (And, cities and councils can perhaps also offer parking at market prices on their properties.)

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#612

Well, of course, if we didn't have traffic ministers again and again, who do everything they can to make rail less attractive and road more attractive, then we could probably have a great system. But automobile lobby is so strong, they buy all the politicians in that role, probably even before they land in that role, so I guess normal people will have to keep suffering, so that those politicians can have a life of lu…

Automobile lobby? That's BS. The German rail system has been cost-saved to death, it now barely handles the increased passenger volume as a result of the D-Ticket. Overcrowded trains, even more delays and train cancellations (b/c of insufficient staff coverage, malfunctioning doors, etc.) even with S-Bahn trains are getting out of hand. "Transitwende" my ass! Same with the "Energiewende". How i envy the Dutch and Bel…

I don't get why you would write your first two sentences. It is very obvious how the automobile lobby has a direct influence here. Here is an excellent documentary (in German) that analyzes the issues with the DB. https://youtu.be/-dmtNToFwuI?si=3ydA_QOjzOvTke2_&t=480 At the linked time stamp, they mention that every minister of transport in the very influential period from 2009-2021 came from Bavaria, with heavy influence from companies like Audi, MAN, and BMW.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they pay for the streets in low density suburbs or do local towns and cities? Also, water infra, electrical infra, etc.

That figure includes every single government-owned street, AFAIK. Total infrastructure costs are higher but don't seem that much higher than in Germany?

TxDOT does not maintain local or county roads which are a massive portion of cost in sprawl.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't having a car do this too?

No. This is something Texas is having to come to terms with right now. Cars and roads only scale so much before you physically can't move more people fast enough even with more roads and more lanes. Rail scales way better. So Texas is pushing a high speed rail line that will allow people to commute 30-90min into a city from locations that currently are 1.5-3 hours away. And at that allow those people to commute to ci…

At this rate I would be surprised if the Texas HSR is complete before 2050. Texas has not come to terms with anything. I say that as a resident for the last 10 years.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#615
post #212

This last week we would've probably all seen the photos of the gridlock on I-75 as Tampa Bay residents fled Hurricane Milton. If you followed the story you know it eventually became almost impossible to evacuate. We should also know how much more efficient buses are on roads at moving people than individual cars are. You can fit ~60 people on a bus that takes up the space of ~2 cars. What should happen in these emerg…

In some ways, it's all kind of moot, since the current usage of cars, trucks, planes is all unsustainable on short timescales (decades).

Bus and rail is likely to be unsustainable for much longer (centuries ?).

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#616

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

[deleted]

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#617

Providing these €49 tickets requires an annual subsidy of around €3bn, on top of already substantial subsidies for the rail industry. If we accept that it reduces carbon emissions by 6.7 million tonnes per year, then that works out to €447 per tonne. That really isn't good value - most carbon abatement methods cost well under $100 per tonne. I do recognise that modal shift towards rail may have other positive externa…

"social cost of driving" and "vehicle mile travelled" are two key phrases that will lead you to research on various costs of car travel e.g.

> The air pollution-related damage attributable to driving, therefore, can be estimated at $10.7 billion to $41.6 billion per year – an average of between $93 and $360 per U.S. household per year.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#618

It was one of the most intelligent ( and rare) decision the government took. Off course, there are parties loosing money like car manufacturers and oil producers.

I agree. I still have to rely on my car for basically everything because the same government also fucked up the rail system so severely that it barely works in my region. When I moved from a small village to the city, I sold my car and wanted to use public transportation for everything. I'm not fond of driving, especially in cities, so this looked like a no-brainer. I had my first bad experiences quickly when I learned that public transportation wasn't anywhere as reliable as I previously thought.

I had to choose between going to work 45 minutes earlier (of course, unpaid and without the possibility of leaving earlier) or risking being too late half the time. I had to travel further for my next job, but I thought it would be better because it was another connection. I was wrong. It was usually better in the mornings, but my way home usually took between 1,5 and 3 hours instead of the planned 45 minutes.

The next job I chose only because there, at least, I could take the S-Bahn instead of the Deutsche Bahn Trains, and it was a direct connection, which was way more reliable. But it was very loud, very smelly, cold in winter, and very hot in summer (I remember having a working AC twice in the four years that I traveled that line), and there were (not always empty) beer bottles rolling around the floor almost all the time. I always paid for the entire year in advance, so the 90-minute daily drive did cost a little more than 220 Euros monthly. Otherwise, it would have been even more expensive. So, the current ticket would have improved that, at least financially. Now, I barely take the train anymore.

I broke my ankle so badly in my youth that the doctors told me that they had to completely cut it open from both sides to see if they could improve it in any way. They also said that there was a strong possibility that I would wake up with a fused ankle after the operation. They recommended I only do that when the pain becomes unbearable, which I am now waiting for. So, I am permanently in pain, and walking is terrible for me. Still, when I have to go to the nearby city center, I prefer walking for 45 minutes instead of taking the 10-minute trip by train. That is what relying on German public transportation for more than ten years did to me. I tried that train connection multiple times before and stopped after it took me over an hour twice (after about five trips total).

Disclaimer: It is not that bad everywhere in Germany. That's why I wrote "in my region" in the beginning. Within Berlin, for example, I had good experiences with public transportation. Well, at least regarding its availability. There were still junkies in there. And homeless people who smelled like they were living on that train for at least a few weeks. But well, that's another topic.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Healthcare cost also decline, and people become less sick because you have to walk some amount to get to the train.

in Paris (and pretty sure that applies to pretty much any big western city, new york for instance is worse in a few of the criterias ill reference) subway increase stress, frequent delays(if you have 2-3 train as part of your commute you will experience it daily), pollution down under is high, virus/covid transmission is high, pickpockets are everywhere if not worse, bedbug, pee smell, junkies. Id take a car any day.

This is much less of a problem in large Asian cities. They're only really stressful in rush hour crowds. But in places like NY the public seems much less interested in the initial policing, maintenance, and cultural attitude shifts that would be required to make it happen. Like, you could still have the artists, street performers, and other so-called charming quirks while still making sure the problematic passengers get the help they need. What's it going to take? You could even do a trial period, like one year of safe, clean metros and see if people want to go back to the way things are now.

Re: Germany's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from road to rail

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't think of it as a subsidy because they are not charged per use a la toll road.

People also pay fuel tax, registration tax, and other taxes that fund the roads

You don’t generally see figures from any jurisdiction (and I’ve seen numbers for a lot of countries and states) where those charges and taxes make much more than 50% or so of the actual costs of building and maintaining road networks, and that’s just the actual spend before even trying to quantify all the social and environmental costs!
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