Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's both a very general and very bold claim. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that's too strong of a claim given how we don't know what is possible yet and there's frankly no good reason to completely dismiss the idea of artificial general intelligence.
I think the existence of biological general intelligence is a proof-by-existence for artificial general intelligence. But at the same time, I don't think LLM and similar techniques are likely in the evolutionary path of artificial general intelligence, if it ever comes to exist.
Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
611–620 of 644 posts
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#612She might just be stressed out. Happens all the time. She's in a very demanding position. She's a pro. Lots to learn from watching how she operates.
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#613Update: Looks like Barret Zoph, GPT-4's post training (co-)lead is also leaving: https://x.com/barret_zoph/status/1839095143397515452
Whoa! This definitely looks much more troubling for the company now. Can't decide it is because AGI is coming very soon OR AGI is very far away
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#614I will never understand why people still take statements like these at face value. These aren't her personal thoughts and feelings. The letter was carefully crafted by OpenAI's PR team under strict direction from Sam and the board. Whatever the real story is is sitting under many layers of NDAs and threats of clawing back/diluting her shares, and we will not know it for a long time. What I can say for certain is no e…
There may be a story, and I'm sure she worded the message carefully, but I don't see any reason to doubt she worded it herself. "Create the time and space to do my own exploration" is beautiful compared to the usual. To me means she is confident enough in her ability to do good in the world that the corporate identity she's now tethered to is insignificant by comparison.
Because ... that's not how these things are done in high-profile companies.
I myself have done the job of writing PR for executives, and at a vastly lower-profile startup than OpenAI.
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#615Earlier quoted context omitted.
it can actually solve problems though, its not just an illusion of intelligence if it does the stuff we considered mere years ago sufficient to be intelligent. But you and others keep moving the goalposts as benchmarks saturate, perhaps due to a misplaced pride in the specialness of human intelligence. I understand the fear, but the knee jerk response “its just predicting the next token thus could never be intelligen…
It solves problems because it was trained with the solutions to these problems that have been written down a thousand times before. A lot of people don't even consider the ability to solve problems to be a reliable indicator of human intelligence, see the constantly evolving discourse regarding standardized tests. Attempts at autonomous AI agents are still failing spectacularly because the models don't actually have…
LLM's do have memory and thought. I've invented a few somewhat unusual games, described it to Sonnet 3.5 and it reproduces it in code almost perfectly. Likewise its memory has been scaling. Just a couple years ago context windows were 8000 tokens maximum, now they're reaching the millions.
I feel like you're approaching all these capabilities with a myopic viewpoint, then playing semantic judo to obfuscate the nature of these increases as "not counting" since they can be vaguely mapped to something that has a negative connotation.
>A lot of people don't even consider the ability to solve problems to be a reliable indicator of intelligence
That's a very bold statement, as lots of smart people have said that the very definition of intelligence is the ability to solve problems. If fear of the effectiveness of LLM's in behaving genuinely intelligently leads you to making extreme sweeping claims on what intelligence doesn't count as, then you're forcing yourself into a smaller and smaller corner as AI SOTA capabilities predictably increase month after month.
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
it can actually solve problems though, its not just an illusion of intelligence if it does the stuff we considered mere years ago sufficient to be intelligent. But you and others keep moving the goalposts as benchmarks saturate, perhaps due to a misplaced pride in the specialness of human intelligence. I understand the fear, but the knee jerk response “its just predicting the next token thus could never be intelligen…
The "goalposts" are "moving" because now (unlike "mere years ago") we have real AI systems that are at least good enough to be seriously compared with human intelligence. We aren't vaguely speculating about what such an AI system might be like^[1]; we have the real thing now, and we can test its capabilities and see what it is like, what it's good at, and what it's not so good at. I think your use of the "goalposts"…
How is it a me problem? The idea of these models being intelligent is shared with a large number of researchers and engineers in the field. Such is clearly evident when you can ask o1 some random completely novel question about a hypothetical scenario and it gets the implication you're trying to make with it very well.
I feel that simultaneously praising their abilities while claiming that they still aren't intelligent "in the way humans are" is just obscure semantic judo meant to stake an unfalsifiable claim. There will always be somewhat of a difference between large neural networks and human brains, but the significance of the difference is a subjective opinion depending on what you're focusing on. I think it's much more important to focus on the realm of "useful, hard things that are unique to intelligent systems and their ability to understand the world" is more important than "Possesses the special kind of intelligence that only humans have".
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#617Okay hear me out. Restructuring for profit right? There will probably be companies spawned off of all of these leaving. If the government ever wants a third party to oversee safety of openAI wouldn't it be convenient if one of those that left the company started a company that focused on safety. Safe Superintelligence Inc. gets the bid because lobbying because whatever I don't even care what the reason is in this mad…
The baptists and the bootleggers https://a16z.com/ai-will-save-the-world/
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#618Okay hear me out. Restructuring for profit right? There will probably be companies spawned off of all of these leaving. If the government ever wants a third party to oversee safety of openAI wouldn't it be convenient if one of those that left the company started a company that focused on safety. Safe Superintelligence Inc. gets the bid because lobbying because whatever I don't even care what the reason is in this mad…
1. Naah, it's not gonna lead to AGI, not here at least.
2. If it's gonna be a for profit then why the hell I should stick here - maybe go somewhere that pays me more, or maybe I will start my own dig.
3. Or maybe, selling the snake oil is more profitable if I start my own brand of snake oil which is kinda close to point 2 anyway.
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
Zero memory inside the model from one input (ie token output) to the next (only the KV cache, which is just an optimization). The only "memory" is what the model outputs and therefore gets to re-consume (and even there it's an odd sort of memory since the model itself didn't exactly choose what to output - that's a random top-N sampling). There is no real runtime learning - certainly no weight updates. The weights ar…
I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing for. Current AI models can still get a lot better, sure. I'm not in the AGI in 3 years camp. But, people in this thread are making philosophically very poor points about why that is supposedly so. It's not "just" sequence prediction, because sequence prediction is the very essence of what the human brain does. Your points on learning and memory are similarly weak word play. M…
Agree wrt the brain.
Sure, LLMs are also sequence predictors, and this is a large part of why they appear intelligent (intelligence = learning + prediction). The other part is that they are trained to mimic their training data, which came from a system of greater intelligence than their own, so by mimicking a more intelligent system they appear to be punching above their weight.
I'm not sure that "JUST sequence predictors" is so inappropriate though - sure sequence prediction is a powerful and critical capability (the core of intelligence), but that is ALL that LLMs can do, so "just" is appropriate.
Of course additionally not all sequence predictors are of equal capability, so we can't even say, "well, at least as far as being sequence predictors goes, they are equal to humans", but that's a difficult comparison to make.
> Your points on learning and memory are similarly weak word play. Memory means holding some quantity constant over time in the internal state of a model. Learning means being able to update those quantities. LLMs obviously do both.
Well, no...
1) LLMs do NOT "hold some quantity constant over time in the internal state of the model". It is a pass-thru architecture with zero internal storage. When each token is generated it is appended to the input, and the updated input sequence is fed into the model and everything is calculated from scratch (other than the KV cache optimization). The model appears to be have internal memory due to the coherence of the sequence of tokens it is outputting, but in reality everything is recalculated from scratch, and the coherence is due to the fact that adding one token to the end of a sequence doesn't change the meaning of the sequence by much, and most of what is recalculated will therefore be the same as before.
2) If the model has learnt something, then it should have remembered it from one use to another, but LLMs don't do this. Once the context is gone and the user starts a new conversation/session, then all memory of the prior session is gone - the model has NOT updated itself to remember anything about what happened previously. If this was an employee (an AI coder, perhaps) then it would be perpetual groundhog day. Every day it came to work it'd be repeating the same mistakes it made the day before, and would have forgotten everything you might have taught it. This is not my definition of learning, and more to the point the lack of such incremental permanent learning is what'll make LLMs useless for very many jobs. It's not an easy fix, which is why we're stuck with massively expensive infrequent retrainings from scratch rather than incremental learning.
Re: Mira Murati leaves OpenAI
#620Earlier quoted context omitted.
at the very least you could say "parsing and predicting text, images, and audio". and you would be correct - physical embodiment and spatial reasoning are missing.
It's all just text though, both images and audio are presented to LLM as a text, the training data is a text and all it does is append small bits of text to a larger text iteratively. So parent poster was correct.
This is not true