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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#611

Post by Aerbil313 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #586
Aerbil313 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is that compliant with the human biology?

Free internet spaces (think old school forums, some subreddits, discord channels, of MMORPGs servers for instance) are pretty much OK, especially when the population is stable and not too big (idk how big is tolerable, but it's likely under 10k). The problem is that these ones too have declined a lot in favor of algorithmically managed internet places which attempt to boost “engagement” by using evolutionary psycholo…

You didn't answer my question. How is internet compatible with human biology, which was not designed for (no matter whether you believe in God or evolution) a technological lifestyle?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#612

Post by pantalaimon »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #227
phil21 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. We seem to be doing it w…

> he primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on I just don't think that is true for or to many, likely most, religious people. Community is an aspect but at its core it's a religion. You can't be a part of the community without believing, or at least pretending to believe, in the religion.

Religion is a meta-organism that uses minds as it’s substrate.

Just like ordinary organisms, it undergoes mutations and evolution - its characteristics are seldomly 'designed'.

Without community to keep it alive, it will die out. So religions that include practices to tie communities together are at an evolutionary advantage.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#613

Post by roenxi »

chongli wrote: post #571
lawlessone wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it It’s not that surprising when you think of selection effects. Suppose you have a sack full of marbles. Half of the marbles are pink and the other half are random assorted colours. Now reach into the sack and pull out two marbles. If they match then they get married and you set them aside, otherwise return them to the sack. It’s easy to see…

> The fundamental problem with dating sites cannot be solved by any business model

Well, it can be solved but not by a dating site (evidence: this was a solved problem in the past). But it'd have to be very radical compared to modern dating. Arguably the branding couldn't be as a dating site, but as a stable community where people don't get removed over time so the concentration of non-pink marbles never rises.

That is something like the old model that church communities would have used. The marriageable ones pair off, but they are still in the community of people talking to each other. New marriageable people entered the community, didn't feel overwhelmed or different and eventually pair with other new entrants. The business model has to be that drawing a pair isn't ever expected to result in marriage and is fun by itself but serious dates might happen. Then the system would be viable.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#614

Post by edem »

Dalewyn wrote: post #538
paulryanrogers wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I frankly find marriage to be nothing short of a human rights violation anyway. Just curious, but how could marriage be a rights violation?

First the axiom so we're all on the same page: I truly and wholeheartedly agree with and believe in the notion that life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness are unalienable rights. Marriage is many things, but chief among them is that marriage is an inevitable compromise of each others' liberties and therein lies the violation. Who am I to compromise my would-be wife's unalienable right to liberty? Who is my would-be…

So... you're part of a suicide cult basically.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#615

Post by bravetraveler »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #602
chongli wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it It’s not that surprising when you think of selection effects. Suppose you have a sack full of marbles. Half of the marbles are pink and the other half are random assorted colours. Now reach into the sack and pull out two marbles. If they match then they get married and you set them aside, otherwise return them to the sack. It’s easy to see…

This describes what I have intuited happens while dating in ones 40s.

Seems to start in the 30s, in your 20s there's still hope. After that finding someone unscorned is rare, becoming such yourself. Ask me how I know

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#616

Post by lotsofpulp »

mlloyd wrote: post #525
flappyeagle wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a much worse problem actually. Why have a committed relationship when you can always press a button to look at hotties and have a pull at the sex slot machine? If they design the system right, their audience just won't marry or have long term stable relationships

I think committed relationships are on the decline more because of the change in how women interact with and are viewed by society, than technology. Each successive generation of women over the last several decades has increased their ability to earn an independent successful living, control their sex life without negative labels, and remove the expectations that their only value is domestic-oriented. Where in the pa…

Also, being in a relationship with a bad partner is worse than being in a relationship with no partner, especially for women who are in more physical danger.

Therefore, with increased ability to live independently, expect more risk adverse behavior, which means a larger percentage of the “bottom” of the dating market goes uncoupled forever.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#617

Post by lotsofpulp »

Aerbil313 wrote: post #551
nineplay wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unavoidable in Christianity. Even if one's immediate religious society doesn't believe in hell, it is trivially easy to find other societies which do, and other societies that believe that everyone is damned except for people who've accepted the 'right' concept in the 'right' way. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I realized I could become an Atheist and mostly put the matter out of my mind. Quick…

The universal human intuition of the concept of God is equally valid as the human intuitions on causality that stands as the ultimate fundamentals of modern science. Math is the mother of all sciences, philosophy the root of math, human intuitions the root of philosophy. The very psychologist under his article we're talking, Jonathan Haidt, have proven this, that the concept of God exists from birth even in Japanese…

> The universal human intuition of the concept of God is equally valid as the human intuitions on causality that stands as the ultimate fundamentals of modern science.

This makes no sense. There are myriad cognitive biases that prevent or hinder the ability to model reality, that may or may not be advantageous to an animal depending on the environment it is in.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#618

Post by anovikov »

mewpmewp2 wrote: post #522
silisili wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a strange feeling that some of those are just people too embarassed to say they met online Probably right. I don't really get the stigma, but I've known a few people personally who told the same lie and found later it was online. One in particular had a huge elaborate story about their bar meeting. His wife told me later one day he basically selected her from a website. So like most questions, probably worth…

Selected... What? Not matched? You are making it seem like she just listed herself for selection on a website and went with it?

In many countries where dating balance (i am not saying gender balance... because it's not really about numbers of guys and girls but about difference in their interest in dating), is not as skewed as in the West, this is still the case. You can actually write anyone, even on a free version of a dating app or website. Girls' feeds get a bit spammy, but not terribly so, it can still work. I know it sounds crazy but that's an upside of life in the Eastern Europe let's say, or ex-Communist bloc.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#619

Post by slightwinder »

tivert wrote: post #402
StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

> Over 50% met online. Is that actually true? I read something recently (in an recent article in a major publication about how online dating sucks and people are getting tired of it), that the proportion is much lower. Like people put all this money and effort into dating apps, but must successful relationships still form outside of them.

"Online" these days more likely means social networks, games and other services where people with common interest meet. Meaning, you meet through your hobby, instead of a dedicated service for meeting or because you just happen to live in the same area.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#620

Post by lotsofpulp »

bitcoinmoney wrote: post #542
fergonco wrote: post #57

Just a data point: In Valencia, Spain, in the 80s, children played in the street with no much supervision from parents. Occasionally we would stop the football match to let a car drive by. Forgetting your keys at home was no issue, you could get a glass of milk in ten different places while you wait for other (more attentive) members of your family. Nowadays there is hardly a place to park your car. Parents don't all…

Same in Philippines in the 90s. We’d be out all day and come back at dinner time. There was no pedo. I think kidnapping and pedophile are overblown in media. Whole neighborhood would just play on the streets. No nanny.

It is also true that sexual harassment and abuse was not openly discussed, especially by girls/women and still isn’t (at least in real time).
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