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Apple introduces M4 chip

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Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#611

Post by mkl »

philistine wrote: post #141
izacus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple usually massively exaggerates their tech spec comparison - is it REALLY half the power use of all times (so we'll get double the battery life) or is it half the power use in some scenarios (so we'll get like... 15% more battery life total) ?

Quickly looking at the press release, it seems to have the same comparisons as in the video. None of Apple's comparisons today are between the M3 and M4. They are ALL comparing the M2 and M4. Why? It's frustrating, but today Apple replaced a product with an M2 with a product with an M4. Apple always compares product to product, never component to component when it comes to processors. So those specs are far more impr…

> Apple always compares product to product, never component to component when it comes to processors.

I don't think this is true. When they launched the M3 they compared primarily to M1 to make it look better.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#612

Post by legitster »

robbomacrae wrote: post #552
legitster wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). I feel like people are being a bit naïve here. Apple's "Privacy First" strategy was a marketing spin developed in response to being dead-last in web-development/cloud computing/smart features. Apple has had no problem changing their standards by 180 degrees and being blatantly ant…

Having worked at Apple I can assure you it's not just spin. It's nigh on impossible to get permission to even compare your data with another service inside of Apple and even if you do get permission the user ids and everything are completely different so theres no way to match up users. Honestly its kind of ridiculous the lengths they go to and makes development an absolute PITA.

That could very well be true, but I also think it could change faster than people realize. Or that Apple has the ability to compartmentalize (kind of like how Apple can advocate for USB C adoption in some areas and fight it in others).

I'm not saying this to trash Apple - I think it's true of any corporation. If Apple starts losing revenue in 5 years because their LLM isn't good enough because they don't have enough data, they are still going to take it and have some reason justifying why theirs is privacy focused and everyone else is not.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#613

Post by choppaface »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

On “privacy”: If Apple owned the Search app versus paying Google, and used their own ad network (which they have for App Store today), Apple will absolutely use your data and location etc to target you with ads.

It can even be third party services sending ad candidates directly to your phone and then the on-device AI chooses which is relevant.

Privacy is a contract not the absence of a clear business opportunity. Just look at how Apple does testing internally today. They have no more respect for human privacy than any of their competitors. They just differentiate through marketing and design.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#614

Post by LtWorf »

rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy

Is this the same apple whose devices do not work at all unless you register an apple account?

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#615

Post by biscuit1v9 »

> the latest chip delivering phenomenal performance to the all-new iPad Pro What a joke. They have M4 and they still run iOS? Why can't they run MacOS instead?

If you take it a bit deeper: if an iPad would have keyboard, mouse and MacOS → it would basically be a 10/12 inch macbook.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#616

Post by jshaqaw »

The heck do I do with an M4 in an iPad? Scroll hacker news really really fast?

Apple needs to reinvest in software innovation on the iPad. I don't think my use case for it has evolved in 5 years.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#617

Post by hmottestad »

120 GB/s memory bandwidth. The M4 Max will probably top out at 4x that and the M4 Ultra at 2x that again. The M4 Ultra will be very close to 1TB/s of bandwidth. That would put the M4 Ultra in line with the 4090.

Rumours are that the Mac Studio and Mac Pro will skip M3 and go straight to M4 at WWDC this summer, which would be very interesting. There has also been some talk about an M4 Extreme, but we've heard rumours about the M1 Extreme and M2 Extreme without any of those showing up.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#619

Post by stouset »

andsoitis wrote: post #539
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

Nothing is true forever. Google wasn’t evil forever, Apple won’t value privacy forever.

Until we figure out how to have guarantees of forever, the best we can realistically do is evaluate companies and their products by their behavior now weighted by their behavior in the past.

Re: Apple introduces M4 chip

#620

Post by klabb3 »

andsoitis wrote: post #539
rsp1984 wrote: post #457

Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…

> In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing). Their primary business goal is to sell hardware. Yes, they’ve diversified into services and being a shopping mall for all, but it is about selling lu…

> but it is about selling luxury hardware.

Somewhat true but things are changing. While there are plenty of “luxury” Apple devices like Vision Pro or fully decked out MacBooks for web browsing we no longer live in a world where tech are just lifestyle gadgets. People spend hours a day on their phones, and often run their life and businesses through it. Even with the $1000+/2-3y price tag, it’s simply not that much given how central role it serves in your life. This is especially true for younger generations who often don't have laptops or desktops at home, and also increasingly in poorer-but-not-poor countries (say eg Eastern Europe). So the iPhone (their best selling product) is far, far, far more a commodity utility than typical luxury consumption like watches, purses, sports cars etc.

Even in the higher end products like the MacBooks you see a lot of professionals (engineers included) who choose it because of its price-performance-value, and who don’t give a shit about luxury. Especially since the M1 launched, where performance and battery life took a giant leap.

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