Live data from Hacker News

Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

darrenkopp.com

611–620 of 679 posts

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I buy this theory. The problem I have with it is that for this to be a reasonably effective strategy you should change the arbitrary metric every few years because otherwise it is likely to be hacked and has the potential to turn into a negative signal rather than positive. Essentially your false positives can dominate by "studying to the test" rather than "studying". I'd say the same is true for college admissi…

I think (but cannot prove) that along the way, it was decided to explicitly measure ability to 'study to the test'. My theory goes that certain trendsetting companies decided that ability to 'grind at arbitrary technical thing' measures on-job adaptability. And then many other companies followed suit as a cargo cult thing. If it were otherwise, and those trendsetting companies actually believed LeetCode tested progra…

> If it were otherwise, and those trendsetting companies actually believed LeetCode tested programming ability, then why isn't LeetCode used in ongoing employee evaluation?

Probably recent job performance is a stronger predictor of near future job performance.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia article did not define affirmative action as positive discrimination.

“Affirmative action (also sometimes called reservations, alternative access, positive discrimination or positive action in various countries' laws and policies)…” It calls them the same thing

No. Positive discrimination is a form of affirmative action in various countries' laws and policies. Positive action is another. Positive action is not positive discrimination. Paragraph 2 mentioned merely targeting encouragement for increased participation even if you did not know what positive action meant.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#613
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Jobs at software companies in the US. A few very rare jobs at software companies in the US. The BLS median for 2024 is way lower, at $110k. (Yet at the same time, still much higher than parent-poster's $40k figure.)

I assume the BLS median accounts for all software jobs. That would include software jobs at GM (the US equivalent of BMW), banks, insurance companies, and the rest of the economy. Does it control for industry?

Going back to the phrase "software companies", the closest category-breakdown looks to be "Software Publishers", where the mean average [0] rises a bit to $149k. (I'm going to assume that the relative difference in means is similar to the difference in not-shown medians.)

You can see higher values, but I think they look suspiciously like generic labels slapped over large something-opolies such as Google ("Web Search Portals, Libraries, Archives, and Other Information Services", mean $215k) or Uber and Lyft ("Taxi and Limousine Service", mean $187k.)

[0] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm#ind

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#614
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately this only works for interns and new grads. Nobody experienced want to take a job on an experimental basis.

Aren't probationary periods pretty standard, in many/all industries and countries too not just software?

Yes and such a system makes hiring so much easier because mistakes cost much less. But the US ties things like healthcare to employment so a company that has a reputation for firing people after hiring them (however legitimate) would probably be one people would avoid. In Sweden, for example, I’ve found interviews so much more reasonable. Then again, I had healthcare there regardless of employment.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Affirmative action (also sometimes called reservations, alternative access, positive discrimination or positive action in various countries' laws and policies)…” It calls them the same thing

No. Positive discrimination is a form of affirmative action in various countries' laws and policies. Positive action is another. Positive action is not positive discrimination. Paragraph 2 mentioned merely targeting encouragement for increased participation even if you did not know what positive action meant.

The text attests to both our interpretations.

1) By saying x is sometimes called y under some circumstances, the text implies x (Affirmative action) is equal to or a subset of y (Positive discrimination)

2) The second paragraph also suggests examples of affirmative action that wouldn’t constitute positive discrimination

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#616
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally understand your point of view, but looking at it from the other side it’s not as simple. We had candidates with 10+ years of experience in their resume, talking to them it seemed they know what they’re doing, they showed some of the code they’ve supposedly written. Then they got hired and it turned out they can’t code - their PRs are below junior level, constant bugs, communication is abysmal, they overshoo…

We recently interviewed a candidate, with 7 years of experience at a FAANG company, fail a really basic coding interview and we don't even make you write code. I have no idea what these people expect. We ask coding questions, we have basic programming skills as a requirement, what do they think will happen if they get the job? Do they expect to just magically learn the required skills or hope that nobody will notice…

Out of curiosity, is it possible he lied on his resume about being a FAANG SWE?

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Positive discrimination is a form of affirmative action in various countries' laws and policies. Positive action is another. Positive action is not positive discrimination. Paragraph 2 mentioned merely targeting encouragement for increased participation even if you did not know what positive action meant.

The text attests to both our interpretations. 1) By saying x is sometimes called y under some circumstances, the text implies x (Affirmative action) is equal to or a subset of y (Positive discrimination) 2) The second paragraph also suggests examples of affirmative action that wouldn’t constitute positive discrimination

The text would support your interpretation if the article ended after the 1st sentence. And the 1st sentence did not mention positive action.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#618

Sounds like a skill issue, mate, just sayin. Might want to grind leetcode and do some mock interviews to build those skills up. Look, I know a lot of the job application process is bullshit. But much of the job is bullshit too. You still have to do one kind of BS in order to land the job and the other kind in order to function as part of a team in an organization. There's really no way around that.

Bad advice imo. Code tests became popular in like 2016, were hated by 2020, and are now basically out of fashion.

Also, Leetcode doesn't cover: Async programming, APIs, databases, UI, git, tests, design systems, any known framework or library, how to persist data, how to set up a web server, handle requests, serve a page, write CSS, SQL, use devops/cloud platforms, or basically anything an engineer does everyday. It's basically a sport that most people don't like.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've had to work on tree traversal stuff multiple times in my life, anything low level GUI related will work with trees a ton. How many times did you have to write tree balancing code with no reference materials?

The exact same number of times I've been asked that during an interview: 0! I do ask tree traversal questions when interviewing because I've had to traverse a lot of trees so I think being able to do an in order traversal of an already sorted binary tree (which is only a handful of lines of code) is fair game.

In order traversal is simpler and more practical than the questions xandrius asked about.

Re: Coding interviews are stupid (ish)

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't get why such questions are even asked as most jobs I've ever had not even remotely touched those and I've touched quite a few industries, technologies and types of companies. To me, the value of a software engineer is to ask questions, make hypotheses and be able to iterate quickly. Balancing trees, leetcode and other algorithmic stuff on the spot sounds like bringing the dreadful education system struc…

> if a senior person can't in 30/45 min of talking with someone figure out the general experience level then the problem is them, really. This is why I've always been so confused. Why is the software engineering interview wildly different from the traditional engineering interview (seniors sit down with candidates and discuss how to solve a relevant proxy problem the team is currently undergoing (has the side benefit…

> if a senior person can't in 30/45 min of talking with someone figure out the general experience level then the problem is them, really.

Being able to evaluate a person is a difficult soft skill to learn. An interviewer cannot learn nor improve it over night nor months nor years. This is basically being good at reading a person. Not to mention an issue with bias that is highly subjective.

If an interviewer isn't good at this, the solution would still be to supplement your evaluation with a coding interview.

Post reply on HN