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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

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Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#611

Post by tsimionescu »

ent1ty wrote: post #599

With quantum computing growing rapidly, aren't all blockchains in danger of being decrypted and drained in the future?

Quantum computing is not "growing rapidly", it is at best "fast approaching" (and even that is doubtful). There is no quantum computer that does any kind of useful work today at all * - the biggest accomplishment of any quantum computer to date has been to run a simplified version of quantum factoring that calculated the prime factors of 15 are 3 and 5, if I remember correctly (maybe it was 21 = 3 × 7 actually?).

Also, the blockchain is not encrypted, it is cryptographically signed. Any clients "decrypt" it all day every day, that is how you verify it. The security comes from making it hard to find a hash of a block that has the right structure. I don't think it is known whether any quantum algorithm could improve significantly on this problem (there might be a small improvement from using the quantum O(sqrt(n)) Grover's algorithm instead of the classical O(n) searches, but that's not hard to work around). Note that quantum computers are only known to be exponentially faster at a handful of very specific problems, not in the general case. While this is not established fully, it is considered highly likely by those in the field to be the case.

* there are some computers that implement specific quantum algorithms that are sometimes called quantum computers, but those can't do the more interesting algorithms that could break encryption.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#612

Post by adastra22 »

somenameforme wrote: post #529
adastra22 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also if you want to attribute the decline of Rome to any monetary policy, deflation is much more likely. Periods of deflation in the 4th and 5th centuries led to hoarding and burying of coins rather than productive use of wealth, leading to declines and further deflation. Rome never escaped from this deflationary trap and many of these coin hoards were never dug up. Ironically bitcoin attempts to replicate this faile…

You're conflating the consequences of modern and ancient inflation, which were extremely different. In modern times when we want to print money, it just involves a mixture of worthless sheets of paper or even more worthless entries in a database. So we have the luxury of being able to just pull trillions of dollars out of thin air, devaluing all of the other preexisting dollars in the process. But in the past, money…

I don’t think you understood my comment, at all. Debasement in the late Roman Empire was triggered by deflationary conditions. They needed to inject more money and couldn’t (because there literally wasn’t more silver), so they debased it. But why did they need to inject more money? The deflationary spiral I mentioned.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#613

Post by npoc »

kibwen wrote: post #451
TapWaterBandit wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of Work is an energy-intensive solution to a very deep and old social problem: how do you verify transactions between parties over a great distance/online without a trusted intermediary? Proof of work is enormously socially valuable and will change the world. Bitcoin may not be the PoW application to do it (although it also might be) but proof of work is here to stay because of the huge advantages it has over t…

> Just going to point out that if that is your concern luckily the world is going over to renewables so that particular objection will be gone soon anyway. This is dangerously missing the peril of the current situation. The problem with our current energy makeup is not "there's not enough renewables". The problem with our current energy makeup is "there are too many carbon emissions". As a first-order effect, it does…

Harnessing energy is the basis for civilization. The amount of energy used is highly correlated to the level of civilization.

Using energy is not an issue, it's how we produce it that matters. This applies to all forms of energy use of which bitcoin is just a tiny fraction.

Bitcoin will not compete with current energy demand which is geographically constrained. Bitcoin miners can operate at any location in the world and are incentivised to use free, unwanted, waste energy. Any miners that try to increase the demand of current energy supplies will be uneconomical and go out of business.

Also miners using more energy does not directly increase the price of bitcoin. Ultimately the amount of (otherwise wasted) energy used by the network will be limited by the transaction fees which are a free market.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#614

Post by amjnsx »

optymizer wrote: post #436
cs702 wrote: post #273

The Bitcoin network has survived everything that has been thrown at it. Nothing has stopped the damn thing. It's always there. It's one of those things that just keeps on existing, like gold. It doesn't care what you think. It doesn't care whether you like it or not. It doesn't care if you understand it. It's just always been there. Might as well make it easier for people and companies to own it and trade Bitcoin, an…

It has survived by changing the narrative and getting people to buy the stories. It was going to replace money, but then it didn't because the network slowed down to the point where it was unusable. Nobody was going to wait 30 min for a transaction to complete. So then the message was flipped and Bitcoin was now 'an asset', not a currency, further supported by IRS's decision to tax it like an asset, so it was adverti…

> Nobody was going to wait 30 min for a transaction to complete

Depends on the transaction. To buy coffee? Of course not, but there are transactions that can take hours or days to clear.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#615

Post by amjnsx »

baobun wrote: post #348
neilv wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. I thought cryptocurrency was an interesting and promising idea. But I got away from it around the time it became clear the entire space was overrun by wall-to-wall scamming . And it's safe to disregard anyone who doesn't acknowledge that. If someone says "Yeah, it's wall-to-wall scamming, and other than that, the main use of it i…

And yet, you use e-mail?

And fiat...!

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#617

Post by adastra22 »

tromp wrote: post #596
Kathula wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how Bitcoin, which for the next 100 years will continue to print new coins, is attempting to replicate deflation. Maybe inadvertently, by people losing access to their Bitcoins for various reasons, but the design itself certainly isn't deflationary. Not even in its final form, the supply will merely be constant. Also I find it humorus when people complain about deflation, which pretty much is the natural cond…

> for the next 100 years will continue to print new coins The new coin supply (block subsidy) is reducing at an exponential rate and will soon not be able to even compensate for the rate of lost coins.

Arguably we’re already at that point.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#618

Post by tromp »

miohtama wrote: post #566
Octokiddie wrote: post #205

The strong anti-Bitcoin sentiment on HN is still amusing. It goes way back - 13 years or more. Having read many of these negative comments, I think part of this sentiment boils down to the commenter seeing no point to Bitcoin. Just this thread has examples. It must be more than a little annoying to feel very strongly that Bitcoin is pointless, but to also notice that it's still here. Year after year. If that shoe wer…

Hacker News was pro-crypto circa 2015 when Coinbase launched. The change of the tone here is mainly because of the changed audience. Hacker News was originally a forum for founders and hackers. Now it is a general forum for salarymen software developers.

HN was pro crypto when it was still an interesting new technology. That changed when it became a speculative vehicle and breeding ground for scams.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#619

Post by npoc »

TapWaterBandit wrote: post #432
kibwen wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason that bitcoin's energy usage is a philosophical nightmare is because it's a system where energy consumption is the product. As opposed to industries which are "merely" energy-intensive, let's take aluminum refining for example, spending more energy to refine aluminum does not create more demand for aluminum, but spending more energy on bitcoin increases the price of bitcoin, which induces more demand, which…

Proof of Work is an energy-intensive solution to a very deep and old social problem: how do you verify transactions between parties over a great distance/online without a trusted intermediary? Proof of work is enormously socially valuable and will change the world. Bitcoin may not be the PoW application to do it (although it also might be) but proof of work is here to stay because of the huge advantages it has over t…

All sound money has been proof of work since the start of time. It is fundamental to a lasting and fair monetary system. We currently have a fiat system where the population have to work for it, while the elite can effortlessly print it, becoming ever more unjustly powerful as a result. They are looting the world.

Even today, gold miners are working to dig up their proof of work which they can sell into the market. If the work they did was worth more than the gold they found, they'd stop. And if was worth less, more miners would mine, increasing the supply and devaluing the gold.

The only difference with bitcoin is that the work is abstracted. It's simply anchoring the creation of a digital token to work in the physical domain. At the same time, the work performed is protecting the network from attack - it's what makes the blockchain immutable. The work is not wasted - it is being stored as "walls" on top of each block. The further down the block chain you go the more walls of protection you would have to break. It's breathtakingly beautiful.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#620

Post by CynicusRex »

npoc wrote: post #108
ESTheComposer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in HN are in a massive bubble; you see it with other topics too. It's nice to look here for some tech sentiment and interesting article sometimes, but for most cutting edge stuff this forum is always full of naysayers.

There's a fair amount of ill-placed arrogance. It seems that the majority on this board confidently and incorrectly believe that they know all there really is to know about bitcoin. Essentially that it's a scam that wastes energy. If you try to help them understand, you're generally attacked as if you are shill, and then they continue along in their ignorant bubble. It's a shame, but their attitude isn't conducive to…

> You buy bitcoin at the price you deserve.

This is out-of-touch on so many levels. What about people born in ten years? What about people born in ten years in developing countries? The only thing crypto“currencies” have done is increase the wealth disparity and greed.

https://www.cynicusrex.com/file/cryptocultscience.html

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