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Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

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Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#611
post #501

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Ah, the old myth about the irreplaceable engineer and the dumb suit. Ask Wozniak about that. I don't think he believes Apple would be without Steve Jobs.

Steve Jobs would be nothing without Wozniak to design something people wanted.

But the point is that Woz was replacable, because he was replaced. Jobs on the other hand was replaced and the company nearly died, he came back and turned it around. Of course it only because a trillion dollar company after Tim Apple took over, which I guess just shows that nobody is irreplacable.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#613
post #565
post #481

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He didn't. Greg was informed after Sam (I'm assuming the various bits being flung about by Swisher are true; she gets a free pass on things like this), so I think the sequence was: a subset of the board meets, forms quorum, votes to terminate Sam and remove Greg as chair (without telling him). Then they write the PR, and around the same time, let Sam and then Greg know. If OpenAI were a government, this would be call…

Governments fall all the time in non-coup. They just lost majority.

Rushing out a press release with vague accusations and without consulting the relevant parties certainly feels more like a coup than a traditional vote of no confidence.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#614
post #456

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Prediction: there isn't a difference. The apparent difference is a manifestation of human brain delusion about how human brains work. The Turing test is a beautiful proof of this phenomenon: so and so thing is impossibility hard only achievable via magic capabilities of human brains...oops no actually it's easily achievable now so we better re-define our test. This cycle Will continue until the singularly. Disclosure…

Clearly there's a difference, because the architectures we have don't know how to persist information or further train. Without persistence outside of the context window, they can't even maintain a dynamic, stable higher level goal. Whether you can bolt something small to these architectures for persistence and do some small things and get AGI is an open question, but what we have is clearly insufficient by design. I…

Isn't RAG essentially the "something small you can bolt on" to an LLM that gives it "persistence outside the context window?" There's no reason you can't take the output of an LLM and stuff it into a vector database. And, if you ask it to create a plan to do a thing, it can do that. So, there you have it: goal-oriented persistence outside of the context window.

I don't claim that RAG + LLM = AGI, but I do think it takes you a long way toward goal-oriented, autonomous agents with at least a degree of intelligence.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#615

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I think you're completely backward. A board doesn't do that unless they absolutely have to. Think back in history. For example, consider the absolutely massive issues at Uber that had to go public before the board did anything. There is no way this is over some disagreement, there has to be serious financial, ethical or social wrongdoing for the board to rush job it and put a company worth tens of billions of dollars…

Per other profiles of OpenAI, this is an organization of true believers in the benefits and dangers of AGI. It's also a non-profit, not a company. All this to say that the board is probably unlike the boards of the vast majority of tech companies.

This. There were no investors on the board -- as Jason @ all-in said "that's just crazy".

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#616
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prediction: there isn't a difference. The apparent difference is a manifestation of human brain delusion about how human brains work. The Turing test is a beautiful proof of this phenomenon: so and so thing is impossibility hard only achievable via magic capabilities of human brains...oops no actually it's easily achievable now so we better re-define our test. This cycle Will continue until the singularly. Disclosure…

Clearly there's a difference, because the architectures we have don't know how to persist information or further train. Without persistence outside of the context window, they can't even maintain a dynamic, stable higher level goal. Whether you can bolt something small to these architectures for persistence and do some small things and get AGI is an open question, but what we have is clearly insufficient by design. I…

But context windows got to 100K now, RAG systems are everywhere, and we can cheaply fine-tune LoRAs for a price similar with inferencing, maybe 3x more expensive per token. A memory hierarchy made of LoRA -> Context -> RAG could be "all you need".

My beef with RAG is that it doesn't match on information that is not explicit in the text, so "the fourth word of this phrase" won't embed like the word "of", or "Bruce Willis' mother's first name" won't match with "Marlene". To fix this issue we need to draw chain-of-thought inferences from the chunks we index in the RAG system.

So my conclusion is that maybe we got the model all right but the data is too messy, we need to improve the data by studying it with the model prior to indexing. That would also fix the memory issues.

Everyone is over focusing on models to the detriment of thinking about the data. But models are just data gradients stacked up, we forget that. All the smarts the model has come from the data. We need data improvement more than model improvement.

Just consider the "Textbook quality data" paper Phi-1.5 and Orca datasets, they show that diverse chain of thought synthetic data is 5x better than organic text.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#617

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I'm not patronizing you, I'm just responding on the same level as the post I replied to. There's an endless supply of examples of corporate/legal decisions and communication being made on very different criteria from interpersonal interactions. Of course the press release is under scrutiny, we are all wondering What Really Happened. But careless statements create significant legal (and thus financial) risk for a big…

>John >I'm not patronizing you (A)ssuming (G)ood (F)aith, referring to someone online by their name, even in an edge case where their username is their name, is considered patronizing as it is difficult to convey a tone via text medium that isn't perceived as a mockery/veiled threat. This may be a US-internet thing; analogous to getting within striking distance with a raised voice can be a capital offense in the US,…

Jerrrry, thank you for your opinion.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not defamation if it’s true

Truth is subjective and if there is anything that could suggest other motive, as I said earlier, it would be open to interpretation by a jury. Really they should have just said something to the effect of, "The board has voted to end Sam Altman's tenure as CEO at OpenAI. We wish him the best in his future endeavors."

Meh, they don't need to prove that much. It would be Altman that had to prove a lot, because the law favors defendant in this situation. To protect the speech, actually.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#619
post #221

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Doesn't justify the hostile language and the urgent last minute timing. (partners were notified just minutes before press release). They didn't wait even 30 min for the market to close causing MSFT to drop billions in that time. A mere direction disagrement would have been handled with "Sam is retiring after 3 months to spend more time with his Family, We thank him for all his work". And surely would be taken months…

Yeah, this is more abrupt and more direct than any CEO firing I've ever seen. For comparison, when Travis Kalanick was ousted from Uber in 2017, he "resigned" and then was able to stay on the board until 2019. When Equifax had their data breach, it took 4 days for the CEO to resign and then the board retroactively changed it to "fired for cause". With the Volkswagon emissions scandal, it took 20 days for the CEO to r…

Yeah, but Uber is completely different organization. The boards you mention were likely complic in stuff they kicked their CEOs out about.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT and transformer code has been open sourced many times over by different companies. The weights and the operational model is where the IP really is. This will include the architecture for distributing training and inference at this scale. That said m, any developer and scientist worth their salt will be able to replicate it from memory - without having to copy stuff over 1:1. So unless any of the necessary bits ar…

> Sometimes the contracts can include a cool-down period before a person can seek employment in the same industry/niche, I don’t think that will apply in Sam’s case - as he was a founder. It's very difficult to enforce anything like this in California. They can pay him to not work, but can't just require it.

It's actually easier to enforce a noncompete in California on a founder or principal of a firm than it is on an employee. I don't recall the exact, legal specifics, but it has something to do with the fact that those people are in some way attached to the "goodwill" of the original business, which is something of value that the company can protect.

Someone else can probably say it better than I can, but that's how I understand it at this moment.

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