611–620 of 624 posts
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Why would you use software if you think the dev is too incompetent to package it?
Package it for what? There are a lot of distros. Should the dev be packaging it for every one of them? Debian, red hat, suse, arch, other more esoteric ones? Which distro versions? How many years back should they be maintaining the packages?
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This also happened to me. So I decided to uninstall the snap and “apt install firefox” Guess what I got? A freaking snap. Yes, try it. I’m done with Ubuntu
Everyone's done with Ubuntu. It's just not good. Its got a stereotype at this point for being the easy noob distro but that's not even true. Its top to bottom awful and has been for many years.
But whenever I see someone running Ubuntu on a server I think that there is a very real competence issue. Ubuntu should be kept as far from the server room, data centre or cloud as possible.
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> But I've seen no justification why that should be co-mingled with package management. Building sandboxing on top of package management makes a lot of sense because you want sandboxing to work by default, and for that you need to identify the sandboxable things without making the user point to each one individually.
> want sandboxing to work by default Yeah, wake me up when Flatpak is remotely close to doing this. Most "apps" simply disable the sandbox. Not to mention I'm not going to trust "app" developers setting their own permissions. That's the job of package maintainers.
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The one advantage Flatpak provides for me over Nix is containerisation. Not the bullet-proof kind, which allows you to run malware, but of the "reasonable" kind, which stops apps from storing to any directory they like just like that (only chroot level of "security"/isolation would be fine for me). When there's a package manager / runtime that does both then I'm extremely interested.
Looking things up, someone has linked the Flatpak containerisation tech (bubblewrap) into the Nix store: https://github.com/fgaz/nix-bubblewrap It looks... somewhat abandoned, but I'd wager it still works today. Failing that, setting up a shell alias to launch a regular binary in bubblewrap isn't too hard either.
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Same as on Desktop. They are terribly slow, resource hungry, update automatically. On a bit older desktop I have seen it take 5-10 seconds just to start Chromium. And not the initial start after fresh install, it happens every single time. Meanwhile Flatpak or local packages start instantly on the same machine.
So if I install a web server as a snap, it'll be slower, take up more resources, and restart randomly? I find that hard to believe.
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So if I install a web server as a snap, it'll be slower, take up more resources, and restart randomly? I find that hard to believe.
It updates, not restarts. That can lead to problems after restart.
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Fedora's really nice. Try it~ Alternately, I could shill for NixOS. It's also really nice. Eventually.
Note that Fedora has an immutable version of the OS that's similar in intent to NixOS. It's called Fedora Silverblue.
Honestly, I prefer NixOS. It's far more configurable, which is a nice thing to have in an immutable OS.
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me. They provide solutions that work. There have been some teething pains but for the most part nonissues. It's at the point where I'm considering learning how to build snaps for private products I deliver. I think the argument over flat pack versus snaps may expressed in technological terms but in reality, it's just your damn ego. Let it go, it's really not worth arguing over. Use what solves your work problem and t…
> it's just your damn ego. It's really not. First, those technical problems are real problems that will create user-visible problems, ex. forced updates. Second, it has problems that are already user-facing, ex. startup times.
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My favorite experience with snaps is Firefox just closing in the middle of doing something because it wanted to update, and it didn't even bother to check if I was using it first.
This also happened to me. So I decided to uninstall the snap and “apt install firefox” Guess what I got? A freaking snap. Yes, try it. I’m done with Ubuntu
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Bzr is a great counter example. Bzr "lost" because git had GitHub, whereas Launchpad was one too many things and slow to optimize for modern sensibilities. (And Linux used a different VCS before git, so that didn't matter in adoption) Imagine a world without GitHub, and I don't think git would be our go-to VCS. Though maybe not even Baazaar, but there are things like Mercurial too.
bzr lost because it was poorly-architected, infuriatingly slow, and kept changing its repository storage format trying (and failing) to narrow the gap with Mercurial and Git performance. Or, at least that's why I gave up on it, well before GitHub really took off and crushed the remaining competition. For my own sanity I began avoiding Canonical's software years ago, but to me they always built stuff with shiny UI tha…
The question then becomes: why not Mercurial which still had a better UX than git itself?
My point is that git won because of GitHub, despite lots of suckiness that remains to this day (it obviously has good things as well).