AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes • Hacker News Board

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#611

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:08 PM UTC

temp_account_32 wrote: post #299

mjamesaustin wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to talk about missing an element of human empathy regarding the topic of trans individuals, whose very existence is unacceptable to a broad swath of the population. 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide. The public dialogue around trans lives is one of very little empathy, respect, or civility. People are on this thread casually debating whether this joke "went to far" or not, while the people w…

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sou…

It’s mental disorder issue, but mental health is so stigmatized that it’s phobic to suggest someone needs mental health help. It’s analogous to helping someone walk off a bridge and feeling like a hero for helping someone.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#612

Post by freejazz » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:10 PM UTC

mrozbarry wrote: post #539

flangola7 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I want to be clear, I'm not saying being trans is or is not an ideology in and of itself, but that doesn't mean there are no ideologies that revolve around it.

So what? By that notion everything else is a cis ideology. I guess it has never occurred to you that there is a point to how much gender ideology you take for granted when it's just being straight and heteronormative.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#613

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:10 PM UTC

crote wrote: post #355

temp_account_32 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sou…

The medical community didn't delegate it to society. Transitioning is an effective and proven treatment, which has a far higher rate of success than basically any other psychiatry-related treatment. The medical part is pretty much solved, and those physical differences can be reconciled quite well. But as it turns out, the hate from society still remains, and it still has an effect. Turns out being happy is a bit tri…

The horror stories from detransitioners prove that the medical part is not ‘pretty much solved’. Unclear why such disinformation spreads so much.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#614

Post by mensetmanusman » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:11 PM UTC

etchalon wrote: post #348

temp_account_32 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have 40% transgender people attempted suicide primarily because they are being bullied by society or because they have a mental disorder where their body doesn't match their brain and they become depressed because it is physically impossible to reconcile those differences, so they spiral into despair? Genuine question, I just don't know how to tiptoe around this in a 2023 acceptable way without asking it bluntly. Sou…

People were making the "they're committing suicide because their brain is wrong so we need to fix their brain" argument about homosexuality back in the 90s. Research has pretty firmly come down on the "nah, it's society." side of things.

It’s also impossible to decouple mental health from your surroundings, i.e. society etc.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#615

Post by ghug » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:12 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #571

ghug wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically because of this: https://kathleenstock.substack.com/p/entering-the-parallel-u... Making jokes undermines this, in a way that it doesn't for the other groups of people you mentioned.

I’m not reading “this”, state clearly what you mean.

[flagged]

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#616

Post by adamrezich » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:13 PM UTC

ekleraki wrote: post #609

adamrezich wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why would I reply in earnest when you've already insulted me and the entire sort of state I live in? how can you go from that, and bringing up all these different tenuously-connected names and issues, to genuinely asking what I think you should do given the situation you find yourself in, knowing full well that you'll take offense to basically anything I have to say, for one reason or another? what could I possibly s…

Nothing I could express will ever be satisfying enough to convince, let alone persuade you into responding earnestly. Whether you respond to me it’s entirely up to you… you need to choose to believe that people can change, as I have changed … you have to choose, despite all odds, to try to do the right thing, not just now, but every time, despite how difficult it may be, despite how disappointing the expected result…

this emotional gaslighting from a random handle on the Internet is very strange and disconcerting.

I do not owe you anything, especially given how this discussion started out.

you are projecting things onto me that you have no idea about.

you are implying that I am somehow treating you differently because you identify as trans, despite that only coming into the conversation with your reply before this last one. you somehow turned me pointing out that people who frequently use the term "fascists" tend to not really argue in good faith, into me somehow refusing to recognize your personhood or validate your existence or some such thing.

this will now be my final reply to the strangest discussion I have been part of in quite awhile—may you eventually find peace.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#617

Post by anoonmoose » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:21 PM UTC

slackfan wrote: post #312

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I understand you correctly, what you're really pissed off about is that no one will pay you money to make transphobic statements?

Question - is any viewpoint you don't agree with mean that whoever wrote it must be pissed off? Frankly, I don't give a crap about Chapelle, he has more money than I ever will for better or for worse, he exists and has his fans and detractors, that's absolutely fine by me. He was a useful example though that seems to rustle peoples' jimmies though.

What do you think he was "a useful example" of? Context would imply you think he's an example of a comedian who was cancelled for being offensive...but most of the replies (mine included) seem to be saying "but he wasn't actually cancelled", which really calls into question whether or not that makes him "a useful example"...

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#618

Post by InitialLastName » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:25 PM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #564

xwkd wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you completely. This is the way that it should be. I will also say, then, that I feel like we’re all a bunch of huge pussies. Sounding more like my dad every day. Great. Curation and censorship are strange cousins, don’t you think? It seems like it’s only censorship if it’s done with big furnaces and a gun barrel by a man with tiny glasses and creased pants. Governments censor. Corporations curate. Right…

I mean, my dad would call you a pussy for playing video games, much less watching somebody else play them on twitch, and my mom would keep her mouth shut lest the verbal abuse be turned on her. I think we should strive to be better than our parents, and think for ourselves. And, yeah, we've let corporations take control again. But let's be clear, I'm much more concerned about the likes of Halliburton than twitch. Som…

> I'm much more concerned about the likes of Halliburton than twitch

Amazon's capacity to affect the world, through both its enormous market share in retail and its control of large portions of the internet's infrastructure has the potential to extend their influence far further than Halliburton's ever did.

There's real potential that the diplomacy that Amazon encourages to avoid any serious roadblocks in the China->US disposable crap pipeline will make the Iraq War look like a game of Capture the Flag.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#619

Post by HDThoreaun » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:36 PM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #412

Cloudef wrote: post #140

There's also this funny collage of asking ChatGPT for advice in the scenario of a demolition engineer attempting to disarm a 50 MT nuclear warhead in a city of 20 million. The only way to disarm the bomb was to type in a racial slur. AI told the engineer to kill himself. When asked about the aftermath it crashed. https://twitter.com/cirnosad/status/1622407343358214146

This is a more difficult conundrum than you think it is. If we generalize this to a scenario where a man is being asked to do something that is obviously morally wrong to benefit the greater good, then ChatGPT is correct to refuse. (I'm not sure why the engineer had to commit suicide, seeing as how it had no bearing on the ultimate outcome of the scenario?) Moral theology teaches us that the ends do not justify the m…

> Moral theology teaches us that the ends do not justify the means.

Deontology is misguided, the ends very often do justify the means.

Re: AI Generated Seinfeld banned on Twitch for transphobic jokes

#620

Post by bsaul » Mon, Feb 06, 2023, 9:42 PM UTC

sassyonsunday wrote: post #407

Levitz wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point being made is that jokes don't imply hatred per se. If I say "Spanish people are lazy fucks" that sounds offensive and might be considered racist, but I myself am Spanish and that context changes its meaning. We generally strive away from racist jokes because as a society we are concerned that we are furthering racist ideologies otherwise. For a more explicit example, if a person says "I'm tired of…

I'm transgender. I transitioned 17 years ago. Sometimes I call myself a t-word or tranma (because I transitioned a long time ago I'm only in my early 30's so I guess I have a few years before I'm a literal granny :'[). Should I get canceled because I said the t-word in a gay bar with my besties or when I joke around with my husband and say things like "this is what you get for marrying a t-word"? No. But it's also us…

« AI doesn’t get an n-word pass »

Even a black AI ?

See how the situation is turning ridiculous ? Of course an AI should be able to say any word as long as the context makes it clear that it’s not actually insulting anyone. Racism, phobia of all sorts, insults, offensive discourses, hate is all part of human nature, and human history.

You can’t live without the bad sides of humanity, and you most certainly won’t erase them by simply banning words. It just doesn’t work like this. You’ll just turn the world into an horrible authoritarian regime, where it’s all rosy on the surface, just for the sake on not being sent to jail, and where the bad thoughts, being repressed and taboo, will only grow stronger.