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Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

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Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#611

Post by trinovantes »

emodendroket wrote: post #596
pdonis wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should someone get a ticket for going 66 mph in a 65 zone? Speed limit laws should not even exist in the first place. They are a paradigmatic example of laws that are unreasonable and should not exist. The fact that it is impossible to enforce them as written, or even with light-years of as written, is one reason for that. > I don't really think officer discretion is avoidable to a certain degree. To a certain degr…

So you think there’s nothing wrong with blowing through a school zone at 150mph? Speed limit laws are clearly flawed in many ways but there is a clear reason why they should exist.

Speed limits (in North America) are simply the 85th percentile speed of drivers on a specific type of road. The onus should be on the civil engineer who designed the road to make it physically impossible to go 150 in the first place - e.g. narrow/curved lanes, speed bumps, concrete bollards, trees on the sides, etc. If roads are actually designed properly, then speed limit laws are unnecessary because drivers will naturally slow down to avoid damaging their vehicle or themselves.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#612

Post by rufflez »

nineplay wrote: post #219
bhelkey wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Child services had the family agree to a safety plan, which meant Wallace and her husband could not be alone with their kids for even a second. Their mothers—the children's grandmothers—had to visit and trade-off overnight stays in order to guarantee the parents were constantly supervised. After two weeks, child services closed Wallace's case, finding the complaint was unfounded. This is the fault of the nosey neig…

When I write software, I know that users will do dumb things and it is my responsibility to write my code in such a way that they can cause no damage. The legal system should have similar responsibilities. If citizens can report crimes, some citizens will incorrectly report non-crimes. If the legal system can't handle that, the that is entirely the fault of the legal system.

That’s part of the problem… everything can’t be reduced to if-then-else; situational awareness, perspective, nuance and understanding are completely missing. In this case, how helpful is it to the child to remove the mother from the child, to teach her a lesson not to remove herself from the child?

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#613

Post by paperwasp42 »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #43
kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

> who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood? I wish I knew. My children have had the cops called on them for playing in our front yard. I wish they could spend their afternoons climbing trees and playing in the grass like I did growing up, but there's a group of people who see children playing outside of direct parent supervision as a categorically dangerous activity. I'm alw…

Kudos to you for bucking the trend and encouraging your kids to do things like spending afternoons romping around outside!

Complete anecdata, but the parents in my close friend group are split between "parents with a more free-range kid mindset" and "typical upper-middle-class parental paranoia."

The free-range kids are mostly happy-go-lucky, emotionally stable, and thriving. Almost every single kid over the age of 10 with paranoid parents is diagnosed with a mental health condition of some sort. I mean I literally can only think of one who is not in therapy or taking medication. I think the isolation and lack of unsupervised group activities that you describe is a big part of it.

One of my more paranoid friends made a judgmental comment recently regarding my other friend's daughter not being in therapy. I was extremely confused and asked if the kiddo was having emotional issues. Her response was, "Well not yet, but 12 is a very stressful age, and I think that when you have the money to do so, it's just good parenting to ensure your kid is talking to a therapist on a regular basis."

The level of paranoia needed to believe that every single perfectly stable 12-year-old needs weekly visits with a mental health professional to ensure their health and safety, and that not supplying this is neglectful, is just... bizarre.

I cannot help but believe this sort of behavior is severely damaging the psyche of these kids. And I also don't see how it can't be hurting the parents as well. Imagine how incredibly stressful it must be to be a parent who believes every stranger, every walk around the block, and every pre-teen mood swing is a serious danger to their child.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#614

Post by metadat »

Mandatum wrote: post #608
metadat wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds insane. What fun is it being a kid if you can't explore? That was the only really good part, otherwise childhood and adolescence is mostly suffering. Wasted youth.

They only legislated this in the 80's directly after the US serial killer craze started. Golden State Killer, Son of Sam, Hillside Stranglers, Ted Bundy, etc. Richard Ramirez became popular a few years after the law was enforced, and at that point it solidified for everyone "this was the right decision". Many parents in the 90's let their kids walk home alone, and explore their neighbourhoods on their own.. And even…

I grew up in the Bay Area in the 90s and we were allowed to roam as free as we wanted. Sometimes we were a bit naughty but nothing too too crazy.

Everything is a possibility, it's all about the statistical probability of a bad outcome actually happening.

Someone could break into my house and murder me at any moment. I still don't wander around with a bat or a club because such events are sufficiently rare here in West Menlo Park.

When I was a kid, it seemed like adults were idiots by and large.

Now as I'm getting a bit more ahem, experienced, my perception is regressing back towards this hypothesis.

Why are the karens winning? :/

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#615

Post by pdonis »

emodendroket wrote: post #596
pdonis wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should someone get a ticket for going 66 mph in a 65 zone? Speed limit laws should not even exist in the first place. They are a paradigmatic example of laws that are unreasonable and should not exist. The fact that it is impossible to enforce them as written, or even with light-years of as written, is one reason for that. > I don't really think officer discretion is avoidable to a certain degree. To a certain degr…

So you think there’s nothing wrong with blowing through a school zone at 150mph? Speed limit laws are clearly flawed in many ways but there is a clear reason why they should exist.

> So you think there’s nothing wrong with blowing through a school zone at 150mph?

I have said no such thing. Do you really believe that the law is the only thing that defines what's "wrong"?

> Speed limit laws are clearly flawed in many ways but there is a clear reason why they should exist.

No, what is clear is that the law should be written to penalize actual harm. Speed limit laws don't do that. They penalize people who have caused no harm, and because they can only be enforced arbitrarily--who gets stopped for speeding has nothing to do with actual risk reduction--they reduce people's respect for the law in general.

A properly written law for "rules of the road" for speed would be something like this: The posted "speed limit" on any public road is advisory; you cannot be stopped or ticketed simply for driving faster than the posted limit. However, if you are in an accident and it is found that you were exceeding the posted limit, you are presumed to be at fault. (You can still rebut the presumption, but that requires going to court and presenting evidence and having the judge rule in your favor based on that evidence.)

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#616

Post by matheusmoreira »

kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

The real problem is the cop finding a perfectly fine child walking home in his own neighborhood and arresting his mother like a violent criminal for such a grave offense.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#617

Post by axxto »

ddalex wrote: post #511
zhdc1 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My son is expected to walk to and from school without parental support once he starts kindergarten. We don't live in the states.

Switzerland ? One of the places that is somewhat normal...

Very normal in Spain, too

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#618

Post by jmaygarden »

psychlops wrote: post #184
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has a GoFundMe to help cover her legal expenses to right this wrong To be clear, Wallace "is in debt after losing her job and paying for the lawyer and the diversion program" and "hopes to hire a lawyer to get her record expunged so that she can work with kids again." The GoFundMe is to pay for those costs. It won't do anything to undo the original miscarriage.

Part of the problem is that she pled guilty, thereby endorsing the position of the police and creating a larger problem in the future. I don't know what the correct response is when looking down the barrel of a 2 year sentence for nonsense, but think this publicity battle should have been before the plea.

That's the problem with the legal system. It's extraordinarily common to plead guilty when innocent because fighting the charge is more damaging than accepting a deal.

I even had this happen to me with a traffic ticket. It was way too expensive to fight it even though I could easily proven my innocence.

This lady probably would lose at trial and then have to appeal. The judge could instruct the jury that they have to adjudicate whether she dropped off the child or not regardless of whether that should be reasonable. You often can't argue constitutionality and some other factors until appeal. That would bankrupt the family.

Re: Mom handcuffed, jailed for 8-year-old son walking half a mile

#619

Post by honkycat »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #43
kurisufag wrote: post #3

>A woman one block away had called the cops to report a boy walking outside alone. That lady had actually asked Aiden where he lived, verified that it was just down the street, and proceeded to call nonetheless. The cops picked up Aiden on his own block. this is the real problem here. who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood?

> who in their right mind calls the cops on a kid walking around his own neighborhood? I wish I knew. My children have had the cops called on them for playing in our front yard. I wish they could spend their afternoons climbing trees and playing in the grass like I did growing up, but there's a group of people who see children playing outside of direct parent supervision as a categorically dangerous activity. I'm alw…

We basically jail our children at this point.

It was like this when I was in high school as well: There is no place where young people are allowed to gather and explore their personalities.

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