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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one is big for product designers. You're right that there are definitely opportunities for improvement here. As a Product person that has worked in EMR/Healthcare IT systems, I can tell you the biggest challenge is most of the decisions are driven by legally-required compliance. In many cases, you literally cannot make it better because the brokenness is /by design/ to comply with the law. Nearly across the bo…

Steve jobs mentioned this as a reason he never wanted to do enterprise sales. The user and the purchaser are two different people.

I wonder how this is handled inside apple? Are apple internal tools good or terrible?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a problem fostered by that culture though.

Is it, though. If you have the opportunity to take a look at the content of your typical business administration book, or even the Harvard Business Review magazine, they essentially are collections of success stories. Instead of setting the narrative, they go and say “this or that worked/didn’t work, to get this company out of a slump”. The issue, I believe, stems from the fact that “bringing in the MBAs” happens whe…

In that content is the sometimes implicit, sometimes not-so-implicit understanding that efficiency is something positive. The very first thing a finance textbook will inform you of is that the market is efficient and that this is what allows it to function.

When in reality, efficiency and fragility are two sides of the same coin. You might not want to maximize your efficiency if you also want to be resilient.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#613
post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

Food service workers don't want to take food into a patients room?

My mom worked in food service for several years at a hospital and took the food into the rooms. Is this not the norm?

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#614
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

Many can't afford to not work due to debt/rent/child support payments. If you don't pay rent you lose the apartment and the weekend parenting time. Miss the child support payments which were being taken from paycheck and child support enforcement takes driver license and starts process to take the car that is in your name.

Many people don't have even a little optionality.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#615
post #557
post #550

Not to be mean, but 'leave nursing' and then what ? Nursing is a well paying middle-class job without a lot of transferable skills to other professions. Don't say programming. It isn't the solution to everything. Other low-entry-barrier jobs pay much less and have exploitation problems of their own. For a lot of middle class families, dual income is essential to maintain their lifestyle. So SAHM is not an option. Nur…

> Nursing is a well paying Only in a vaccuum. It pays far worse than other jobs at the same rate given the effort and stress the job entails. > don't they get more leverage on what QOL and wages they can demand ? Sure, but it needs to get far worse. The hospitals are only going to budge once walkouts are organized. But that can't happen without strong unions, most nurses just need to pay the bills which is why they c…

What I read here instead is that the American people is fine with deteriorating healthcare, and will not regulate the industry, nor burst into a walkout of their own.

I find it cheaper to fly back to Europe and pay out of pocket (uninsured) for anything non-trivial along with my flight ticket than pay for California services. Only two things I miss: a) nicely decorated clinics and nurses taking my vitals and information instead of the doctor b) heart attack or stroke chance while reading the bill.

(Of course, I have the advantage of having people to stay with. Perhaps, Airbnb will start offering health services that way soon.)

/s

Seriously, we need to start looking as health care for its value as health care and not a money grab; we pay enough taxes to have a hospital running without the fear of profitability I believe -- in California at least.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#616
post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> Patients in COVID have become downright mean. Add this to the problems nurses have management and doctors (who are often rude and arrogant) and it's a poor culture.

So...this is also the biggest reason (besides lack of pay or basic human dignity) that restaurants and retailers are having a lot more trouble finding employees. Rude (and sometimes violent) customers were already an issue, but they've become absolute animals lately. It's increasingly bad for your own health, mentally and physically, to have any public-facing job. In the last few years, we've let go any pretense of expecting people to be civil and reasonable, and adult children are rewarded for their behavior instead of being trespassed.

Teachers are also quitting in droves (and in the middle of the school year, in some cases) for the same reason. Children are awful and the parents are worse. You risk sickness and violence, and are constantly harassed by parents. Then there's the whole attack on the curricula and book banning...

The FAA reported 1099 incidents with unruly passengers last year, up from a normal 100-300 in prior years. Because some sorts of people simply won't do what they're told...and disobeying flight crew instructions is generally a federal crime.

Everyone's increasingly overworked and underpaid, and they have to deal with degenerates like that daily. Of course they want out.

We're having a societal implosion.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

Yes and No. On an individual basis, nurses are overworked because they choose to be and their employers allow for it. The standard work week is 3 12 hour shifts, which is much less than most professionals work. Like a retail or warehouse worker, they are expected to clock out as soon as possible and leave when the shift ends. Those of us with salary jobs knows how difficult that can be in our arrangements and how muc…

It makes sense to the $250k/year hospital chief bureaucrat (not a medical person) and the Pres. and board accept that the extra contractor pay is just short term.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#619
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re facing some massive generational crises at this point, and it feels like the only solution is to wait for the current leadership to die off, and hope the gen x’ers fix it. The WWII generation fixed the ozone hole, but their kids didn’t lift a finger for global warming. Subsequent generations are scrambling to pick up the pieces for our kids, while crap like this, and our rapidly collapsing democracy keep sabota…

> The WWII generation fixed the ozone hole, but their kids didn’t lift a finger for global warming. Let's not pretend these are comparable challenges. > our rapidly collapsing democracy keep sabotaging our efforts. When people say stuff like this, are they being hyperbolic or do they actually mean it? How long is the democratic tradition in the US that is collapsing?

We just had a candidate openly try to steal the last presidential election and face no real consequences as a result. In fact, it likely strengthened his position. 10 years ago I would have thought the end of American democracy was extremely unlikely, now though we're only a few small steps away and that bridge could be crossed at any point.

This isn't some outlier event either, democracy has been receding around the world for years. I really, really hope the trend reverses itself, but am scared at how real the threat is.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#620
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

> How much more do nurses need? What you need to realize is that nursing salaries in the US are NOT uniform. From what I've seen in past discussions about it is they range anywhere from $20/hr -> $100k/year. The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses. The majority of nurses, that I've seen, are clocking in at 50->60k yearly salary. Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev m…

> Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev makes $300k a year. How much more do devs in the US need?"

And the answer to that is "how much is Google worth?" If your business relies on the efforts of software engineers to design and build your primary products, they should have the primary equity in the company. So no, even Google developers aren't paid nearly enough...and they're certainly overworked, regardless of how much they make.

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