Tax the Land • Hacker News Board

Re: Tax the Land

#611

Post by CryptoPunk » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 12:50 AM UTC

rsync wrote: post #580

CryptoPunk wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Tax has nothing to do with raising money. Taxation is entirely about raising money. >>It’s about releasing real resources for the public good - largely people to provide public services. What does "releasing real resources" mean, and how does taxation achieve that? And how does a land value tax fail to achieve that? >>It’s about releasing real resources for the public good - largely people to provide public service…

"Taxation is entirely about raising money." I hope that it is interesting and noteworthy for you to learn that many, many smart and thoughtful economists do not agree with that. In fact, they strongly disagree . Current thinking in modern economics - specifically in MMT[1] - is that money is created by loans and destroyed by taxes. Which is to say, the government (provided it is a sovereign issuer of its own debts, l…

While MMT holds that taxes can reduce the money supply, it does deny that taxes raise money for the state.

Re: Tax the Land

#612

Post by dropit_sphere » Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 12:01 AM UTC

murphyslab wrote: post #482

dropit_sphere wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economically advantageous sprawl, though---or it would have to be, to meet the owner's goals of not being a financial burden. I think the idea is that in that situation the owner sells, though.

Sprawl isn't economically advantageous to cities, since low-density sprawl does not generate sufficient funds to cover the associated infrastructure. High-density urban cores end up subsidizing those infrastructure costs. [0] The end result is what Strong Towns refers to as the "Growth Ponzi Scheme". [1] [0] https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2021/8/4/the-question-ev... [1] https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-pon…

I certainly sympathize, but I'm not sure what this has to do with land tax. If cities can't efficiently provide infra to certain building patterns, they should either reduce their guarantees ("You can build there, but you'll have to lay down wire yourself"), or prohibit building differently. Both seem compatible with an LVT.

Re: Tax the Land

#613

Post by dllthomas » Thu, Apr 21, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #345

giantg2 wrote: post #13

"The big question land value taxes help answer is: How can a government raise funds without distorting choices and possibly leaving people worse off? If you tax income, it provides a disincentive to work. If you tax property, it provides a disincentive to improve the physical buildings on top of the land." Of course it will distort choices and leave some people worse off. If the author can't see that, then they have…

> Please, show me how an appropriately set income tax disincentivizes work. Here's a proof that income tax disincentivizes work: Would you work an extra hour a week if it were paid at 1000x your normal rate? I confidently assert that you would. Would you work it for 100x your normal rate? Almost certainly. 10x? Probably. 0.5x? Probably not. 0.01? Almost certainly not! So, earning more or less than some threshold hour…

This only obviously holds locally. If we imagine a world where the only use for money was to bid in an auction for a single good against others subject to the same taxes (and without pre-existing savings), changing these rates shouldn't affect how much I want to work.

I expect that our world does not sufficiently resemble that one for your conclusion to be wrong, but I think we don't get it for free.