Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4

#611

Post by xdennis » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 7:40 AM UTC

gadders wrote: post #581

xdennis wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What agreement? This is the agreement that Russia signed to guarantee the integrity of Ukraine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit... What agreement did NATO sign to not expand? Produce it!

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/02/15/the-origins-of-... "President Bush also assured Gorbachev during their meeting in Malta in December, 1989, that if the countries of Eastern Europe were allowed to choose their future orientation by democratic processes, the United States would not “take advantage” of that process. (Obviously, bringing countries into NATO that were then in the Warsaw Pact would be “taking a…

I said show me the agreement! Where is it? What is the text?

Re: Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4

#612

Post by ozim » Sat, Feb 26, 2022, 8:49 AM UTC

ozim wrote: post #339

gls2ro wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would this kind of sanction achieve? Do you expect that a friend of Putin will go to him and then ask him to stop a War? Right now in his own circle of friends, there is nobody more powerful than Putin and their money does not matter right now. The war will not be stopped because some friends will have their assets frozen or even lost. Global Power > Friends Money. To stop this war one has to show a bigger power…

How do you think one gets power? By having rich friends and connections. Don't get fooled, they are only "friends" because they have common business and goals. Average Joe from the street is not going to be their "friend" because he would not bring anything to the table. Friends money is part of that power, taking that money away makes whole group weaker, because it is not "evil villain in a cave", world does not wor…

Just to add to the comment: https://theglobalherald.com/news/putin-speech-to-oligarchs-r...

Re: Estonia, allies to trigger NATO Article 4

#613

Post by abandonliberty » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 11:14 PM UTC

realcertify wrote: post #603

abandonliberty wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iraq was quite questionable. The motive, oil/currency, was understandable though reprehensible. The terrorists weren't from Iraq, but Afghanistan/SA; GWB's decision to attack, and destabilize both a country and international order (as we're now experiencing) is his legacy. The difference here is that Ukraine did their best to appease Russia, including promising to never join the EU/Nato for promises of security. It s…

Ukraine did not appease Russia, that's the problem. If you look up the news 2 weeks ago you'll see that Putin sent a note to NATO demanding guarantees that Ukraine will never join that organization. West told Putin to mind his own business. This war wouldn't happen if the response was different.

Thanks for that.

It seems like it all comes down to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_of_influence#Contempora...

Notably:

"Our state has given up its share of the Soviet nuclear arsenal - the third largest in the world - and in return has received assurances, including from Russia, that our borders and our security will be respected. All this did not happen. So it is strange to hear the Russian side asking for any guarantees when so many promises have already been broken by the Russian side itself," Zelensky said when asked about Ukraine's possible refusal to join NATO in exchange for a guaranteed withdrawal of Russian troops from the border.