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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

niemanlab.org

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#611

Post by marginalia_nu »

antasvara wrote: post #600
marginalia_nu wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried to delete my Spotify account (in Sweden). Not just cancel, but delete because they inexplicably put my profile on the Internet in full display and I was not even a little bit okay with that. I think 7 different "yes I'm really sure, yes despite the sad violin music and yes despite the images of sad puppies", a support ticket, several emails going back and forth confirming I'm really sure, and then a few more…

I think the general idea is that if they make it difficult enough, some people might just decide that it's not worth canceling. I'm sure there's some metric that says most people canceling a subscription are unlikely to resubscribe, so making it difficult to do so probably increases the likelihood of keeping you by some small percentage, offsetting your likelihood of coming back. The NY Times is a great and slimy exa…

I think a lot of businesses greatly overvalue behavioral economics as a means to control people. Nudging doesn't seem to work nearly as well as it's "supposed" to when implemented in real world scenarios. Heck, even in a laboratory setting the effects are honestly pretty sketchy.

And that doesn't even factor in disgruntled ex-customers going around telling everyone they meet about their experiences.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#612

Post by jjnoakes »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #497
jjnoakes wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this legal? I assume if they wanted to (which admittedly is unlikely) they could send you to collections for not paying for the renewal that you agreed to when you subscribed.

You’re subscribing for a year or whatever is the fixed period. How is it illegal to pay for it with a physical check?

It's not illegal to pay for it with a physical check; it's illegal (unless your original agreement automatically terminated after a year) to not then pay for the automatic renewal at the end of the year.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#613

Post by syspec »

derbOac wrote: post #591
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

This is one reason I miss one-time credit card numbers. My main credit card used to allow you to generate one-time numbers. You could control the limit on the numbers, how long they would last, you could edit this, and so forth and so on. I loved it because you could give a different unique card number to each site, that would self-destruct after a specified amount of time. It was great for stuff like this because if…

With Apple Card you can generate a new CC number at will, any time.

I use this when giving my CC number over the phone when dealing with contractors.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#614

Post by confidantlake »

Most people I talk to say they are against regulation. But without regulation you get stuff like this. I too am against having to get a permit for a kid to open a lemonade stand, but I am pro regulation to allow me to easily cancel subscriptions or my gym membership.

Also I wonder if the NYT will ever report on how hard they make it for their customers to unsubscribe?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#615

Post by dehrmann »

nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

One or two of my credit cards offers an unmaintained way to get virtual card numbers with dollar and month limits. I'd just use that. Save the awkwardness with the friend.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#616

Post by wpietri »

eckesicle wrote: post #502

Meanwhile in Scandinavia: You are legally entitled to unsubscribe from any contract in any way that is most comfortable to you. [0] For example, you can: * send them a letter * send them an email * call them and tell anyone who picks up the phone * write it on a napkin and hand it to an employee All are equally legit and legally binding. Companies obviously do not want to deal with the manual overhead, so services ty…

One other thing I'd like: For digital subscriptions, I'd like not using the service for, say, 30 days to automatically pause billing. So if I don't use Netflix or read the NYT for a whole billable month, they don't bill me for the month. If there's no cost to the producer and no value to the (non-)user, there shouldn't be a charge.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#618

Post by kreeben »

rootusrootus wrote: post #561
aeternum wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems really annoying. You can unsubscribe to most things in writing as well in the US. The issue is that it takes only a misclick to subscribe, whereas writing and mailing a letter or getting a napkin and travelling to the company's HQ takes considerably more effort (few companies have humans answer the phone). Seems that Scandinavia needs to change their laws if the goal is to make it easy for the consumer.

> This seems really annoying. The most annoying part is that in any thread like this the top comment invariably ends up being some smug observation that is clearly better than the US.

What's the English word for when you're angry about something but you aim that anger towards a whole other thing?

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#619

Post by rootusrootus »

chrsig wrote: post #569
rootusrootus wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This seems really annoying. The most annoying part is that in any thread like this the top comment invariably ends up being some smug observation that is clearly better than the US.

The solution to this is to help the US rise to the occasion, not complain about it on the internet.

Many of us are trying to do exactly that. Can you explain how smugly proclaiming "see how we are better than you!?" furthers the conversation? It is not a constructive comment, it does not offer any meaningful insight to how we might improve the US. It's just divisive.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#620

Post by iscrewyou »

edge17 wrote: post #493
nobody9999 wrote: post #481

Dark patterns aren't just for cancellations. A couple years back, a friend bought me a one year gift subscription for Britbox[0]. When I tried to activate the gift subscription, the site refused to allow me to do so unless I provided them with a credit card number. Which, from a practical standpoint, makes no sense as it was a gift . I wasn't going to provide these wankers with my credit card number[0], so I then had…

This seems to be a common design pattern on iOS App Store as well. Download a 'free' app and don't let the user use the app in trial mode unless they click a button that gets them to sign up, subscribe, or buy some in app purchase.

I’m here to vent/rant about this. I bought vsco filters packs ages ago. I haven’t used vsco in a while and I downloaded it again recently. Turns out they’ve moved to subscription based method. Fine, I’m sure I can still restore my old purchases…false. To even use the app to get to the restore button to check this, they made me sign up for an account. After much hesitation I finally did only to realize my old purchases aren’t available anymore.

To top it all off, I tried to delete my account…the app won’t let you!! You have to go to their website and delete it. But wait! First you have to verify your email before deletion. No, not verify email before accessing the account, verify before deletion.

What a trash of a company. Please don’t do this developers.

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