Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#611

Post by spacephysics » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #585

teakettle42 wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand the pride bit. I can't speak to the parent, but I take pride in self-reliance, and taking responsibility for securing and defending the well-being of myself, my family, neighbors, and community. I also am a volunteer, state-certified structure firefighter, and take pride in that for the exact same reason. You might find it interesting that, as part of our classroom instruction, my structure firef…

> the tragedy isn't the gun, but the necessity for one, and it's a tragedy inherent in our mortal existence. Well, they're sure not necessary here in Australia. I don't think I've ever met someone who owns one, certainly no-one has ever mentioned owning a gun to me. It's just not a thing. Seems to be just "a tragedy inherent" in the USA. I was watching every day, and supporting, the George Floyd protests, and after a…

I think Australia is a great example of what happens when guns are given up. You have a government that’s going on witch hunts for covid cases and exerting extreme authoritarian pressure for remarkably low covid rates.

Some would say it’s them testing the limits of their populace. What are they gonna do? Protest? That’s illegal when in lockdown.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#612

Post by paisawalla » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

adamredwoods wrote: post #569

nverno wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, personally I would much rather put my trust in my neighboring citizens than the government. I trust myself and other citizens to stand up for our rights more than I trust the government to protect them. So, I'd rather citizens be armed than the government. IIRC Switzerland has an interesting citizen militia/gun ownership situation as well.

Sadly, our neighborhood thinks everyone is a potential criminal and hangs signs around saying "I don't call 911" with a picture of a gun. This is not inviting to other neighbors, and not a way to build trust with one another.

I grew up in an area where people have these signs and bumper stickers, and never had a problem socializing. I saw no evidence that people couldn't trust their neighbors or community. I've seen these in rural and urban places as well, and still haven't seen any issue like what you're suggesting. What's the problem supposed to be?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#613

Post by Zababa » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #235

phendrenad2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3x a small number is still a small number. Your chances of getting struck by lightning increase if you live on a hill, but no one is basing home buying decisions on that. The real argument is that guns enable acts that, while rare, and while they affect few people, are so egregious that we as a society will go to great lengths to ensure they never happen (school shootings).

Note this is just murder, but murder is merely a small fraction of gun deaths. The multiplier for all firearm-related deaths between the US and EU average for example is around 12X, more than an order of magnitude [1]. The elephant in the room however is that the main argument simply doesn't hold up. Owning a gun doesn't just make the owner slightly more likely to get shot, but also everyone around them [2] Or, as th…

> I wish Americans could get a feeling of how different a society without a perpetual feeling of danger and paranoia feels like.

Do you think having fire drills and extinguishers is "a perpetual feeling of danger and paranoia"?

> Where children just go to school without security checks, amok drills and bulletproof safe rooms.

Maybe try to do something against bullying? It might seem a bit harsh but having been on the receiving end of that, it's hard to find empathy for those people that panic once the victims start fighting back.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#614

Post by spyder » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:46 PM UTC

comrh wrote: post #237

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

Murder rate isn't the whole story. Check out the suicide rate, how gun ownership affects a successful attempt and who is killing themselves in the US.

Yep, that's so crazy and sad:

"Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t."

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/handgun-owner...

:-(

Also:

"Sixty percent of deaths from firearms in the U.S. are suicides."

So if somebody dies from a firearm in the US it's more likely to be suicide than other firearm related death.

https://health.ucdavis.edu/what-you-can-do/facts.html

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#615

Post by yunohn » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

hunter21athrow wrote: post #329

micromacrofoot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite following, but are you saying that women are afraid for their children because of Black Lives Matter? Have there been any documented cases of BLM indiscriminately attacking women or children? This seems weird to me. I've taken gun safety courses run by local police, and every time they told us that it's ideal to not have a gun in your house at all because they see more accidental shootings than thwarted…

> Have there been any documented cases of BLM indiscriminately attacking women or children? This seems weird to me. Well, there was widespread rioting across more or less the entire nation. Also, while not direct violence by BLM agents, many metropolitan police forces have either introduced "reform" in direct support of BLM policy or have otherwise changed tactics to avoid getting bad press and riots in their own tow…

What is a “BLM agent”? How often has gun-toting helped defend you against “Criminals, particularly Black criminals”?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#616

Post by nostromo » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

xmprt wrote: post #270

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

The US government probably seems less corrupt than the EU because of its laid back approach to a lot of policies. However, that's exactly the type of corruption that a lot of people are talking about. The country needs a lot of change to tackle big problems like climate change and increasing wealth inequality however the government is sitting back doing nothing because many representatives are lobbied by big interest…

Why blame lobbyists for this?

You can see for yourself what actual Americans think the "most important problem" they're facing is:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1675/Most-Important-Problem.asp...

Global warming and income inequality are so low they barely register in the poll at all. Representatives follow their constituents.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#617

Post by meragrin_ » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #307

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. If you're pro-democracy/pro-republic/pro-anything-other-than-might-makes-right why is this admirable or desirable? Weapons are a force multiplier, and they can make a minority with extreme desire to fight very strong. A Taliban, a Castro, a Confederate States of America... It's naive to think that guns will only ever be used by defenders…

> It's naive to think that guns will only ever be used by defenders of freedom.

I think you summed it up pretty well there as to why it is desirable.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#618

Post by dbrueck » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

endymi0n wrote: post #235

phendrenad2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3x a small number is still a small number. Your chances of getting struck by lightning increase if you live on a hill, but no one is basing home buying decisions on that. The real argument is that guns enable acts that, while rare, and while they affect few people, are so egregious that we as a society will go to great lengths to ensure they never happen (school shootings).

Note this is just murder, but murder is merely a small fraction of gun deaths. The multiplier for all firearm-related deaths between the US and EU average for example is around 12X, more than an order of magnitude [1]. The elephant in the room however is that the main argument simply doesn't hold up. Owning a gun doesn't just make the owner slightly more likely to get shot, but also everyone around them [2] Or, as th…

"I wish Americans could get a feeling of how different a society without a perpetual feeling of danger and paranoia feels like."

And I wish you could better grasp just how big and diverse America is. :) There are parts with terrible problems that make for scary headlines, but those parts are not in any way representative of very large swaths of the country. Where I live there is essentially zero violence (of any kind). We don't live with perpetual feelings of danger or paranoia - heck, we often forget to lock our doors at night.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#619

Post by spacephysics » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #578

nverno wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like a regrettable situation where your distrust of your fellow citizens is so strong that you are comforted by the ability to kill them with minimal effort. It's usually the opposite sentiment for gun owners- I trust my fellow citizens with arms. Guns are seen as an integral part of self-reliance by many. They provide you with a reasonably effective defense. One way to significantly erode individual's/cit…

" They provide you with a reasonably effective defense" No, they don't at all. Just the opposite actually. I get the 'Guns to defend against Tyranny' argument, that's kind of reasonable. But as 'personal defence' they don't work nearly as well as having strong gun regulations which keep guns out of the hands of the morons. It's much safer walking down the street in Canada where you can't legally carry a gun, because…

But your premise rests on the trust that criminals won’t obtain guns illegally if more restrictions are created. On mobile, so don’t have the numbers, but I recall a large amount of gun crime is done by illegally obtained firearms.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#620

Post by qeternity » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #556

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. Yeah, I'd add that France doesn't have a long, porous border with the developing world. Nor nearly as much heterogeneity in its population.

France is quite heterogenous. The "homogeneous = less crime" argument is a bit xenophobic/racist at best, and not quite true. Societies with an impoverished underclass is what causes higher crime rates, regardless of whether or not the underclass is mainly comprised of ethnic minorities. France (heterogenous) and Japan (homogenous) take better care of their poor than the US (heterogenous) and Guatemala (homogenous),…

> France is quite heterogenous.

Paris, yes. France, no.

France as a whole is very homogenous.