FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#611

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

pokstad wrote: post #446

0xB31B1B wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we don't require anyone to take the vaccine, and we will never require anyone to take the vaccine. What we should and will do is restrict what someone who is not vaccinated can do to limit the harm they will cause to others. No one is going to bang down your door and force a vaccine into your arm, but if you do not want to get vaccinated you will need to change your life because you will be restricted from participat…

Power to tax is the power to destroy. The power to exclude is the power to coerce. Society is coercing people into taking the vaccine by requiring it for any activities outside the home. Want to go to the grocery store? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to go to Disneyland? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to attend a conference? Get a vaccine or take a test and wear a mask. The mask and testing mandates are an ef…

The mask mandates are universal -- everyone is required, vaccinated or not. When they were only advised, it was advised that the unvaccinated wear them. And whether you can go into a privately owned store, privately owned Disneyland, or privately owned conference -- these are private businesses, the gov't should not tell them they cannot require vaccination.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#612

Post by thrwawydeadbeef » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

random314 wrote: post #580

neither_color wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), May I ask why? I've had two shots without much hesitation but this whole booster thing came out of nowhere and gives me "fool me twice" vibes. I understand getting a flu shot every year to target new strains but this would be the exact same shot as 8 months ago.

The research is out there. CDC does not arrive at policy based on whims or fancies. Trust the process rather than your "vibe".

I don’t know. The research I can find shows natural immunity is effective, but we don’t know the half life of it.

It also shows vaccination is effective, but we don’t know the half life of it.

So the CDCs stance is to vaccinate even if you have a natural immunity, because the vaccine _might_ do better. But that doesn’t seem to naturally follow.

It wouldn’t bother me if companies weren’t considering forcing you to vaccinate to keep your job, even if you have a natural immunity. These stances have real world consequences. You are asking people to trigger their immune system, something complex and not fully understood. Companies are taking these recommendations and using them as policy, forcing the recommendations as corporate laws. If you are going to force this on people, the way you are communicating isn’t how you do it.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#613

Post by TheFreim » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

pensatoio wrote: post #146

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #128

Do you hear that? It's the sound of millions of goalposts being moved.

“It’s not FDA approved,” is a secondary objection aimed at urging someone think about the primary.

Yeah, everyone I've talked to who is not taking it used it as a secondary argument as to why people who don't have other concerns should still be cautious.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Post by XorNot » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

criticaltinker wrote: post #596

DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

> the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe Yes the vaccine has been proven to be safe for most adults in the short-term. But blanket statements like this over-simplify the reality of the situation. People need to be aware that for certain sub-populations (eg pediatrics & pregnant women), there is insufficient scientific evidence - in terms of clinical trials and longitudinal studies - to conclude that the benefits of vac…

For pregnant women the conclusion has been in for a while that COVID-19 leads to a higher incidence of hospitalizations and complications and it has been advice from OBGYN's to get vaccinated with Pfizer ASAP: source - my wife is currently pregnant and we were told this by our OBGYN, who also suggested Astrazeneca would be unlikely to be harmful but couldn't professionally recommend it as their were no formal studies (but a large number of pregnant women have been vaccinated with it not knowing they were pregnant).

For pregnant women the current data is that vaccination is conclusively necessary because they cannot possibly hope to avoid COVID-19 infection when giving birth and while pregnant are much more likely to be severely impacted by COVID-19.[1]

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/spec...

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#615

Post by azinman2 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

neither_color wrote: post #570

albatross13 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), but there are plenty of aspects to this that help drive people's fear: - Phase 3 trials for Pfizer not complete until May 2023: ( https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728 ) - Control group(s) were given vaccines after 14 days: ( https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/9691430... ) - Pfizer generates 1.9bn in revenue off of 100m doses, just in the USA alone, cre…

>I'm already triple vaxxed (booster), May I ask why? I've had two shots without much hesitation but this whole booster thing came out of nowhere and gives me "fool me twice" vibes. I understand getting a flu shot every year to target new strains but this would be the exact same shot as 8 months ago.

It’s only currently approved for those who are immunocompromised, for which data show that vaccines don’t result in the same level of antibodies for them.

For others, it seems that with Pfizer the antibody level drops over time.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#616

Post by mike00632 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

jboggan wrote: post #526

DangerousPie wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason there is fear is because people keep posting stories like these without putting them into context. It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe. Just because Pfizer has chosen to keep collecting data doesn't make that there is any doubt about that. This is also why control groups have been given the option to get vaccinated too. It would be highly questionable to prevent…

"It has been clear for a while now that the Pfizer vaccine works and is safe." Yes, except there is an established process for quantifying "clear for a while now" and it involves sufficient time and control groups. That process isn't being followed and it is concerning for a number of reasons, including the effect of political pressure on expedited drug approvals in the future now that this precedent is being set. Th…

This is wrong in two big ways:

1. The FDA requires six months of clinical data to establish safety before FDA approval. The normal requirements for FDA approval absolutely were followed

2. With longer-term studied it's not like we don't know anything about them until it's complete. Data is released on a rolling basis so we know how the results of the studies so far, and (surprise!) data so far say it's safe.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Post by frockington1 » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

notheretoo wrote: post #574

pgalvin wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really, really is not true. Many drug and vaccine approvals in the past have been done before the trial has run its full course. Many drug and vaccine trials have given the placebo group the real drug once safety and efficacy is clear - before the end of the trial. This is not new, and frankly I’m a little surprised to see such conspiracy theories on HN.

Can you prove your statement by providing an example please?

Tuskegee Syphilis Trials

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#618

Post by criticaltinker » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

bmarquez wrote: post #604

spiderice wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It's some variation of an "appeal to authority" logical fallacy (there may be a different logical fallacy that fits better), where the truthfulness of what you say is somehow thought to be influenced by whether or not you've had the vaccine. Even though those 2 things are completely unrelated.

Unfortunately, if he fails to say that he risks getting downvoted, flagged, or labeled as a conspiracy theorist. This is not limited to the medical field, I was once downvoted on an HN comment until I edited it to state that I wasn't supporting Trump, because people were reading it that way.

Yes this dynamic is caused by people reflexively downvoting and flagging posts which suggest facts or ideas that do not match their own opinion and cause them cognitive dissonance. Prefacing comments with vaccination status is how people have started mitigating those ad hominem fueled reactions.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#619

Post by parineum » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #573

albatross13 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is, when you read Pfizer's contract and fact0r in things like "Governments have to pay, regardless of whether or not the shipment arrives: on time, damaged, or at all". I suggest you browse their leaked contract: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20616251-albanian-pf... Pfizer has also been strong arming small, Latin American countries, to the tune of trying to get military assets as "collateral" ( h…

regardless of whether or not the shipment arrives: on time, damaged, or at all Weren't extremely generous provisions like that offered by the US government last year in order to jumpstart vaccine development and production ASAP?

Yes, that's operation warp speed and it worked great. That's the reason the US.had vaccine enough to go around while Canada was struggling to get everyone their first dose.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#620

Post by adventured » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

shusaku wrote: post #233

acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

America is supposedly a country full of antivaxers. Yet every day they give out 3/4 of a million shots (7 day average from google’s tracker). So I think there is a good case to be made for small victories changing minds.

> America is supposedly a country full of antivaxers.

And there's zero evidence supporting that premise. The US has historically been superior to Europe when it comes to vaccinations for example (look at Europe's long history of bad measles outbreaks). It's the difference between garbage propaganda slung at the US and reality. In reality the US has a tremendous long-term track record of making and utilizing vaccines, which is also why the US didn't disregard developing and distributing vaccines for this pandemic, and in fact was one of the world leaders in both categories.