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Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

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Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#611

Post by JohnFen »

toper-centage wrote: post #15

It's honestly a pity. Firefox is it perfect but the Internet is becoming worse because of chrome. Google is able to fast track any non standard Web tech and the hordes follow. Soon after, that become the standard. I don't want to cheer for a broken browser, but only Safari is able to stop this madness now. Also, Firefox on the Desktop is really good and still let's you do so much more than chrome clones. But it suffe…

> Firefox on the Desktop is really good

I strongly disagree with this statement. My opinion is that it's the opposite.

I always get sad when I think about modern Firefox. I loved Firefox dearly before the transition, and I tried really hard to love it after the transition, too. But it failed me and lost much of what I loved about it. Then every subsequent release was just a little worse, excising more of what made Firefox great.

Eventually, I just had to give up on it.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#612

Post by JohnFen »

dralley wrote: post #429
eitland wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get back the extension API (not the exact same but a modern equivalent). Keep bugging competition authorities to punish Google harshly over the abusive behavior we've seen lately. I'm using Firefox for now but I admit the moment someone forks it and have a good security foundation I'll start using it and donating to it. I'm fed up with Mozilla thinking everything else they donis more important than their main income…

> Get back the extension API (not the exact same but a modern equivalent). Another extension API will solve absolutely nothing.

A fully functional and useful one would go a long way to getting me to give Firefox another chance, because it would make it possible to fix the things about Firefox that drove me away.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#613

Post by TheRealPomax »

freediver wrote: post #460
TheRealPomax wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of "browsers that actually matter", there's just Chrome/chromium at a combined 70% and Safari at a little over 18%. Everything else is a side mention at best and as a browser at least, is basically irrelevant on the world stage. Even if the companies behind them aren't (e.g. Mozilla or Samsung). [1] They are of course highly relevant for their user bases, but in terms of "browsers that might break the Chrome…

> You'd need to pull a Microsoft IE-on-Windows on Google How about actually just making a good, competitive browser instead? Firefox is not failing because of Google's monopoly; it is failing because as a product it is unable to compete and beat Chrome where it matters. If not Mozilla, I am pretty sure somebody else will make such browser (and search engine, and email... ) eventually.

Sorry, have you looked at what you need to implement in order to even be a browser that's shit, but at least supports the modern web? Because everyone's answer is "that would be Chromium" right now. There are so many web APIs, no one person, and not even a small team, could "just" make a good, competitive browser.

There is no "just". There is so very much no "just" anywhere near this topic.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#614

Post by freediver »

jonathansampson wrote: post #610
freediver wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) We are not developing for Windows yet, just Mac. Small startup, we have to focus our strengths. And we are slightly more bullish on macOS than Windows. 2) Perhaps you missed that we are in beta. You are opting-in your email in exchange for being invited to become a beta tester. You do not need to do that. And if you do, we are going to use your email only to send you the invite. And the reason why there are so man…

Bullish on macOS? Windows isn't going away anytime soon. My apologies if I am misunderstanding what was meant by "bullish" in this context. It does strike me as odd (given your tone here) that you would be requiring users to submit their email address, and answer [a Google-hosted] questionnaire, in order to use your application. "…we want to deter as many people as we can [from using the browser at this time]" (brack…

It is a product management decision. We are in the early beta stage and the product is not polished enough for the broader market.

However we are OK to share it with die-hard fans who actually took the time to complete a non-trivial form, hence invite-only private beta. When we move to public beta, there will be no signup requirement.

> Bullish on macOS?

Yes we believe it is an OS and a platform with a bright future. Personally I enjoy it using a lot as a consumer, and I think it makes for a wonderful host platform for a new browser. Note that we also opted to use the WebKit rendering engine (fastest and most power efficient, at least on macOS) and built the rest of the browser from scratch.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#615

Post by psee »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #599
psee wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever seen this response? https://www.emilykager.com/writing/2021/02/10/mozilla.html#m...

Thanks for linking. For a "light hearted joke", that is a lot of effort, extremely unprofessional and very poorly worded. I still don't blame people for taking issue with it. The harrassment though is another story, that sucks and shouldn't have happened.

> The harrassment though is another story, that sucks and shouldn't have happened.

100%

> extremely unprofessional and very poorly worded. I still don't blame people for taking issue with it.

Look, I like the Android browser and I think Geckoview is awesome. Back then, as soon as it hit the shelves enough people were complaining on a level where one can "light heartily" put them into the "haters" category IMHO, next to a much higher percentage of constructive feedback.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#616

Post by agilob »

eitland wrote: post #143

I have contacted local authorities twice about anti competitive behavior from Chrome. If two - three other Norwegians do the same that should start to look like an earthquake ;-) Same if ten - twenty Germans or Brits or French do the same. I would mention: 1. that some of their web properties (calendar and YouTube) have been intentionally incompatible with Firefox as evidenced by how well they work in Firefox if one…

Mozilla is killing firefox by introducing hostile behaviour, breaking user expectations, not delivering on promises and ignoring voices of MANY users.

I used to be firefox user since Phoenix, but I gave up on it after 89 when context menus were broken, megabar was still as shitty as when introduced first tie, and new stupid mobile look on my 4k screen? It's almost like they are killing firefox on purpose, but I realised that loyalty to a software product is stupid and moved to Brave.

Why do you care about Firefox and not Safari or Samsung browser?

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#617

Post by freediver »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #613
freediver wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd need to pull a Microsoft IE-on-Windows on Google How about actually just making a good, competitive browser instead? Firefox is not failing because of Google's monopoly; it is failing because as a product it is unable to compete and beat Chrome where it matters. If not Mozilla, I am pretty sure somebody else will make such browser (and search engine, and email... ) eventually.

Sorry, have you looked at what you need to implement in order to even be a browser that's shit, but at least supports the modern web? Because everyone's answer is "that would be Chromium" right now. There are so many web APIs, no one person, and not even a small team, could "just" make a good, competitive browser. There is no "just". There is so very much no "just" anywhere near this topic.

Yes, I actually have ;) I am a founder of a browser company. Our team is building a browser from scracth, minus the rendering engine for which we have chosen WebKit. Many of our beta testers have already indicated that our browser (Orion) is same or better than Safari, Chrome or Firefox. Hence, I believe it can be done and we'd welcome more formidable competition from Firefox in order to take on Chrom(e/ium ) clones that took over the web.

Re: Firefox lost 50M users since 2019

#618

Post by thro1 »

minitech wrote: post #489
thro1 wrote: post #400

I have no problems with Firefox (with hunderds of tabs open and best set of extensions), and it didn't lost me.. yet. The problem is with modern web, sites excepting JavaScript and things like canvas fingerprinting etc. for working. I have JavaScript disabled, for regular browsing I'm stuck with Firefox version<57 - so, for me, there is no future.

> for regular browsing I'm stuck with Firefox version What? Why? That’s not covered by ESR support anymore; are you just running without security patches?

:(

- but 'hardened' by custom configuration, extensions, some caution and no JavaScript. Without those extensions my productivity is 0 and I loose track of everything I do in newer versions.

Is there something specific that I shall be aware of ?

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