Live data from Hacker News

Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

businessinsider.com

611–620 of 1001 posts

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#611

Here is a classic case of someone conflating the state of Israel and Jewish people and lumping it all together. Plenty of Jewish people that live both inside and outside of Israel are critical of the state. People can be critical of the state of Israel, but they should not be antisemitic. His comments are offensive for this reason.

This is by design. Israel and spent years associating the _state_ of Israel with Judaism. That way you can’t criticize Israel without being labeled and anti-Jewish semite. Nothing he posted was offensive. Israel is an apartheid state

If the said "Israelis" instead of "Jews" it would still be bigoted AF.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#612

The main thing I find odd about that person's blog post ( https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau... ) is that it also doesn't really make any sense mechanically. The first five paragraphs are all comments on how it must be difficult for a progressive Jew to simultaneously support progressive values and Israel > If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasin…

> I wonder what the author was thinking when he was writing it as it doesn't make much sense to me. Quite possibly not much. As someone who has hundreds of blog posts under his belt from a similar time period, a lot of it is just about churning out posts. Start with a thesis, write five or more paragraphs with little planning, do a quick scan for errors, then hit publish. I suspect we're looking at someone who's havi…

Now would someone coming from his ideology have the same reasoned approached to being young and dumb?

Or even well educated but ill-informed about some subjects.

Or part of an organization/group/etc that has some negative public positions or legacy but is not the uniform agreement among the entire group or evolved entirely over the years?

I personally see every election as choosing between lesser evils. Yet some groups see voting for any party as full agreement with everything the political party says and has done.

There is so much context and grey area that modern diversity or social justice groups are (or act?) completely ignorant of. So does it make it rational to put them to their own garbage public trials, or give them a pass like mature rational individuals - also to a certain degree filled with it's own grey areas?

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#613

I've lived in various ME countries, as well as Israel. I've tried to understand the core issue and frankly, failed. Both arguments about this historical conflict between Israel and the Palestinians seem as close to being morally equivalent as I could imagine. I have sympathies but I keep them to myself. I don't feel as though I have a right to take a particular side: I am not existentially threatened on a daily basis…

> I've tried to understand the core issue and frankly, failed It's quite straight forward. Up until WWI, Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived in Palestine, which it and other areas of Arabia and North Africa were under Ottoman rule. During WWI, Sykes–Picot divided up the Muslim lands into arbitrary borders to make them easier to occupy. Syria was occupied by the French, Libya by the Italians, etc. Palestine was under…

[dead]

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#614

His bigotry goes beyond anti-semitism. Kamau Bobb's blog posts were almost exclusively about White and Jewish people, as a whole, and their mistreatment of Black Americans both historically and today. He even targets progressive white people for their more unspoken racism. There is a very obvious tone of distaste for white and Jewish people in his posts. Search for the word "white" or "Jew" in his blog [1] posts to s…

None of those excerpts are concerning on a personal blog. I assume his removal is based on something more substantive. Maybe you're imagining the reaction if "black" and "white" were reversed in the writing. It would be very different because it's very different to be black rather than white in America.

> It would be very different because it's very different to be black rather than white in America.

That's a race essentialist myth[^1]. There are no "white experiences" or "black experiences". We assign "white" and "black" labels to diverse individuals with diverse experiences who process their experiences differently. The average black person may have a different experience than the average white person, but the variance is so large (more variance within a race than between races) that this is utterly useless for talking about any individual (the "average white person" and "average black person" don't actually exist).

[^1]: I would say "a racist myth" but that's a bit overloaded these days and it carries some judgmental connotations that I don't want to imply, but it is no less racist than other racist myths.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#615

In a sane world there would be no such position as "head of diversity."

Very true. It is a vague and meaningless concept. It has never been defined except by referring to antiquated notions of “race” stemming primarily from 18th and 19th century ideas. In modern times, we’ve apparently added biological sex, sexual preference and a vague (and meaningless) concept of self-identity that can, apparently, cross all other definitions with impunity - even changing fluidly throughout the day. To…

The fact that categories are often fuzzy does not make them useless as a general heuristic for finding people who are more likely to share similar experiences with each other.

Almost every kind of categorization system shares the problems you talk about: people can call themselves "programmers" for a variety of different reasons, even though they're working in wildly different environments and might be totally unsuited for each other's jobs. People self-identify with political parties, even though there are no strict rules about what a "Democrat" or "Republican" are, to the point where beliefs of members of those parties might overlap with each other or even be the opposite of what the party normally espouses. We separate games/movies into genres, even though genres are often a complete mess that don't always map well to player preferences or experiences. We take a light spectrum and we break it up into distinct colors, even though the number of colors and lines between those colors are completely arbitrary and meaningless.

It's good to recognize that categories are fuzzy human inventions that are prone to abuse, and it's good to be cautious about putting a lot of weight on them in every situation. It's good not to assume that everyone in a category is identical. But abandoning categories entirely would make it much harder (even impossible) to go through normal day-to-day life.

So it is similarly useful to be able to think about categories like "Black", "Gay", "Conservative", "Christian", "Rural", "Trans" -- even as we acknowledge that those categories are just human inventions and that they blur around the edges. Those categories are still be a useful heuristic for trying to find people who are more likely to share certain attributes or who have had certain life experiences.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the contradiction. He's arguing that this is the tit, in response to the left's tat (as in tit for tat). The left either needs to: 1. Play by their own rules (in this case, fire the guy) 2. Stop doing it to their political opponents

These are rules that you've invented, not every "cancellation" results in a firing even for people posting actually racist stuff. Indeed, there are plenty of people with racist posts who are routinely not fired by these companies. The contradiction is pretty clear - the guy is decrying these tactics, but still saying this person should be fired using exactly those same tactics.

Interesting that your comment implies that the blog post in question wasn't "actually racist".

To me that speaks volumes.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About [0], in Portuguese we have abolished the usage of the term "race" for human beings for exactly that reason. Now we exclusively use the term "ethnicity". Edit: What about the downvotes? Are people going crazy?

Which is why Brazil is such a beautiful post-racial utopia?

Compared to Latin America as a whole? Yup, pretty clearly so. They're on a path to becoming more racially progressive than much of the U.S.

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#618

The main thing I find odd about that person's blog post ( https://web.archive.org/web/20210601160519/https://www.kamau... ) is that it also doesn't really make any sense mechanically. The first five paragraphs are all comments on how it must be difficult for a progressive Jew to simultaneously support progressive values and Israel > If I were a Jew today, my sensibilities would be tormented. I would find it increasin…

Thank you for sharing the full post. It indeed does have a different tone when taken as a whole. It's far too common for people to dig out half a sentence from hundreds of blog posts you've written over a decade ago, intentionally omitting everything else.

This is what was weird to me. The article title and contents didn't appear to match for me

Re: Google removes its head of diversity after 2007 blog post surfaces

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cancel culture is not about canceling people who say racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc things. It is about canceling (read: disenfranchising and taking revenge on) straight white males, who are at the bottom (top? intersection? whichever) of the intersectional hierarchy. Kamau Bobb is not a white male, therefore this does not apply. He is receiving the same treatment that any powerful person, regardless of skin col…

Not quite. It's about ideological alignment and purity. The cancel mob just got Antonio García Martínez fired, for example. And they are constantly trying to cancel Glenn Greenwald, a gay man married to a minority POC, and with minority kids.

I don't know Antonio García Martínez's ethnicity, but he looks and sounds very much like a straight white male, so I would not consider that a counterexample. Also, certainly there are no absolute laws of who is always targeted and who is never, just clear trends.

However, it is true that to some small degree I am oversimplifying something quite complex, partially because the cited example was James D'Amore. Other examples you might cite include Dave Rubin or Ric Grennell. Certainly gay white men and straight white women (specifically if they are Republican) are targeted. What happened at Disney with the treatment of Gina Carano vs. Krystina Arielle is evidence enough of that.

Post reply on HN