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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#611
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many companies exist which have meaningful representation of onsite vs remote employees at various levels of seniority? Can you please name a few? FWIW, at one of the FAANGs I worked that, HR shared data (promo rate etc) between HQ vs remote offices. But those were still remote offices and not remote employees who could work from anywhere.

Fine, I'll play along and say that you're right: the data doesn't exist - which btw I never contested, I actually asked if there was any data available to back a claim. It is then equally fantasist to claim that being a remote employee at a hybrid company is either detrimental, neutral or beneficial to career advancement.

This sounds like a copout. Lack of data doesn't imply equal plausibility. It means that you need to use other methods of reasoning. And people do this all the time - it's not like every time you're faced with a new situation you go "Oh I don't have any data here, all of my options are equally good". No, what you do instead is use common sense, draw on experience, best judgment, mental heuristics etc. Those aren't as good as evidence based decision making but they surely beat throwing your hands in the air and saying that all of your options are the same.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#612
post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't play politics with their subordinates, they play politics with their peers and their superiors. Developers are "human resources" - resources are there to be exploited, not catered for.

That's my point, hence the parent's explanation doesn't make sense.

They mostly play politics with their peers, they need on site presence for that.

They also need to keep an eye on developers and need to feel thigs out, the relationship, their management status known and so forth.

That's very hard to do remotely and they feel their status diminished to that of the "resources" they manage.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this. It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having…

I never understand why long commutes aren't "Pants On Fire" emergencies for people. If you're driving two hours every day , and not spending all your free time wondering how you can either change jobs or change housing, well, it's a finite life that you're pissing away. I'm certain that there will be an outpouring of hundreds of reasons why people cannot move, and I'm sure all of those reasons have merit. But it does…

It depends on the nature of the commute. I've had a commute that was an hour each way, and that worked extremely well for me because the first half was by train, which is fairly low-stress and can be part of a relaxing morning routine (breakfast / coffee / reading the news), and the second half was by bicycle over quiet bike paths, which was important daily exercise that I would have to do anyway one way or another and also woke me up. The only part of the arrangement I disliked was the expense of the train fare.

Commute time doesn't have to be wasted time.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#615
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-topic, but how do you feel about pair programming?

not that guy, but the two times I've had to do it I was miserable. I like getting an assignment and then going off to my cube to do it. To have to constantly be in communication with someone makes my work miserable. I'll gladly send you status at the end of the day, just don't make me ever work that closely with someone again or I'll find a new company.

I never had a job where I did but it happened sometimes (eg solving a critical problem together, or pair programming in new projects to learn). I found it hugely stressful: it made me anxious to have someone waiting for me to collect my thoughts, and work twice as tiring.

I would probably refuse some a new position if there was the expectation of constant pair programming, but I'm curious if others have different experiences.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#616
post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googler opinions are my own. I'd disagree at least a little here. Google has been surveying their staff about what they want to do after the pandemic is over, see this twitter thread where Google published some of it's data: https://mobile.twitter.com/lifeatgoogle/status/1308529118531... People are split on what they want. Maybe people could be better trained to wfh, but some of us just prefer an office. While I am l…

Oh no, please don't start with the magical hallway conversations. I've never had a worthwhile conversation in a hallway or microkitchen, ever. This argument needs to die.

I see. Because you never had one, it must be impossible

Or maybe you can't be trusted or there is another reason.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#617
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. And I don't want to hang "with friends at work" I go to "work" that has to be specified clearly and that I expect to deliver with purely professional merit driven collaboration and not friendships and gangs. I have friends or would love to have friends out of the place where I work. I want strict compartmentalisation between work a…

What about those who _do_ want a friendly workplace with some element of social interaction?

Some of the best friends I have, I met online and haven't actually seen face to face. Still, you can have a workplace with a reduced (not eliminated) physical presence. I know of people who do flexible office visitation, so they have two days per week when everyone is in, and the rest of the time, people are free to either WFH or at the office. Seems to work out for them for now - those who really want to be there can be, while those who prefer to work from home can do so.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#618

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

One thing I have noticed is that while the old hats (those hired some time before the pandemic) are as productive, or maybe even more productive while working remote, it's a struggle to bring in new people, especially more junior people. Maybe these are problems that can be solved, but it seems that an already a challenging and stressful situation, joining a new company, is even more difficult when you are not able t…

I did notice something similar. We brought on one junior last year and I had to schedule about 5 in-person days with him to do actual pair programming to teach him some stuff. That said, I think what stopped me the most with being productive over video chat was not being able to point at his screen and had to describe in detail when I wanted him to look at something. Giving people a virtual pointer to point at stuff on the presenter's screen would be welcome.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#619

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Disagree completely. All metrics at my company, gamedev, show throughput is down ~66% since WFH Me, I want to go back to the office. Like hanging out with my work friends.

That's weird. At my company our performance improved with everyone working from home. Some peoples' individual performance deteriorated slightly, but it's made up for by the rest.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#620

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

One thing I have noticed is that while the old hats (those hired some time before the pandemic) are as productive, or maybe even more productive while working remote, it's a struggle to bring in new people, especially more junior people. Maybe these are problems that can be solved, but it seems that an already a challenging and stressful situation, joining a new company, is even more difficult when you are not able t…

Pair programming all day long is a decent solution to that problem
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