Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#611

Post by foolinaround » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

epakai wrote: post #587

refurb wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re able to clearly separate out the bad actors from BLM, but apparently not with Trump supporters?

I find them harder to separate in the capitol incident. The event they were attending was named "Stop the Steal". At some level people there were invested in a tenuous narrative about how functional our elections are. It's obvious they did not all commit crimes, but they somewhat tacitly encouraged what brought it about. I generally don't feel the same way about BLM activists. There were situations in BLM events wher…

there were 70M+ that voted for Trump. estimates say about 1M folks were somewhere around in DC A few thousands walked to the Capitol A few hundred got into the building There were known provocateurs from the other side..not an opinion, charges filed against Antifa and also a CNN reporter who was recorded being excited about the whole thing.

Yet, you paint all of them with the same brush...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#612

Post by Daho0n » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

efwfwef wrote: post #500

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

> their decreasing popularity FTFY: in the US > repeated scandal and failure At this point what large company hasn't had breaches or cancelled projects? Hell, is your company doing OK in terms of security? Are they hashing passwords correctly? How large is the security team? My company doesn't even hash passwords... At some point you need to stop living in a bubble and recognize that plenty of people, businesses, com…

>FTFY: in the US

No, in lots of places. In Scandinavia Facebook is "for old people".

>not everyone shares your opinion

I do and everyone I have asked (and maybe informed as part of asking) agrees. The thing is that people are lazy - it is not that they don't think Facebook is evil - they are just too lazy to do anything about it. Very few informed people sees facebook as Not Evil.

Also, please don't do FTFY reddit post crap.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#613

Post by filoeleven » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

caseysoftware wrote: post #592

filoeleven wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a huge gulf between how BLM protests were treated and how the capitol protest was. There’s a photo from a BLM protest in DC where the Lincoln Memorial steps (not the capitol building, which is widely-stated misinformation) had lines of National Guard troops stationed on it. Compare that with the tiny Capitol Police force guarding the Capitol building while one of the most important state functions wa…

Alternative take: Maybe DC Police and others learned some restraint in the ~6 months in between and tried to avoid escalating the situation in the earliest moments. Even if it was misplaced, isn't that a better opening mindset?

That’s a fair take concerning the Capitol police (who are a separate force from DC police, just FYI). But even the calls to have the National Guard on standby, given new intel 1 or 2 days before the event that it was going to be bigger than expected, were denied before the event.

Then when things began to escalate, calls for National Guard assistance were denied by the Pentagon for at least a full hour. In a rapidly-evolving situation, especially when the Capitol building has been breached and it takes time to summon the troops since they weren’t on standby, that is an eternity.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#614

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

throwaway_6142 wrote: post #593

flukus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the police weren't shooting because they realized how overwhelmed they were. I've seen a couple of videos where they had drawn their guns and prepared to fire but they were simply surrounded.

So to sum it up, the view from the HN crowd is that the fascist police corps were on the unarmed insurrectionists' side, but the cops didn't want to shoot at the rioters because they were overwhelmed, and the terrorists, who had been planning the coup for months and were incited by Trump's violent speech on Jan 6, decided not to use their guns because they didn't want to risk starting a bloodbath, as they had only co…

[deleted]

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#615

Post by foolinaround » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #362

julienchastang wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I stand corrected. Apparently, this did really happen [1], but my other comment still holds. [1] https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/07/bomb-explodes-in-u...

Even if correct it is a moot point. There have been left wing terrorists for a long time now, and most of them get adequate police response, and sometimes even condemnation from other left wing groups. But even if it didn’t that still doesn’t make the leeway right wing terrorists get justified. Susan Rosenberg has paid for her crimes and no longer uses terrorism to further the cause. Pointing to her case is a sever f…

She was pardoned by Clinton even though some of the incidents she was involved in resulted in deaths.

Not sure how she has paid for her crimes, and why her case of known crimes and casualties should not be pointed?

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#616

Post by jackson1442 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

chmod600 wrote: post #242

standardUser wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Facebook gets a free pass..." No, Facebook devotes significant resources to moderation and makes good faith attempts to uphold their policies. Parler did not. That is the difference. "If the negative externalities are the same in both cases, then this isn't an excuse." No one is trying to rid the world of all negative externalities, only to make reasonable efforts to mitigate them. There may never be a perfectly mod…

"good faith attempts" If it's about intent, rather than results, then it's sure a big coincidence that Parler was deplatformed by Apple, Google, and AWS all within a few days.

AWS has actually been telling Parler to clean the site up for months.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/filing-amazon-wa...

original sources can be found within the article.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#617

Post by Bakary » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

zarkov99 wrote: post #338

jjoonathan wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On one hand we have hooligans using a crowd as cover to get away with property damage. On the other we have hooligans organized for the express purpose of overturning the results of a democratic election. In the case of BLM, the crimes don't reflect on the movement's overall purpose. Nobody expects property damage to be a vehicle for police reform -- it's an argument for more police presence, if anything. In the case…

What would you call the Capital Hill Autonomous Zone if not an attempt at insurrection? Come on, can we have some intellectual honesty here? Both situations sucked, the people involved sucked, their reasoning sucked and they should all go to jail so that sane people can get back to their lives in peace. We are being forced into building absurd logical houses of cards just so we do not concede an inch to the other sid…

From my perspective as someone outside the US, I don't have an emotional dog in this fight. That said, the Capitol raid was the one thing that made me stop joking around for a bit in the entire Trump era because I genuinely believed a coup was not only possible but probably underway given the parameters. In the end it turned out to just a bunch of disorganized wannabes but the context was still genuinely worrying especially with reports of the police standing down to let the mob in, even if we cast aside the shrill theatrics that followed in the media.

In comparison, the BLM unrest seemed like it would predictably peter out fairly quickly without much in the way of concrete changes, and that's exactly what happened. At no point did I expected some radical uncertainty in the future as a result.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#618

Post by mberning » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

teachrdan wrote: post #326

Uhhrrr wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hadn't heard about it either, but this Guardian article backs it up: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/30/protest-wash...

From the article: "The Secret Service said in a statement on Saturday that six protesters were arrested in Washington and “multiple” officers were injured. There were no details on the charges or nature of the injuries. A spokesman for US park police said their officers made no arrests, but several suffered minor injuries and one was taken to a hospital after being struck in the helmet by a projectile." A few injurie…

You seem to forget or ignore that one capitol rioter was shot in the neck/face and died. One officer allegedly died from a head strike from a fire extinguisher. Another committed suicide. I am not aware of any officer being beaten to death by the mob. One officer was caught in a door but survived.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#619

Post by thelastwave » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #494

sojournerc wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and Antifa and BLM have caused fear in Portland for political reasons as well. They lit the mayor's apartment building on fire, but were not called out as terrorists. The media is not even handed here.

Yes, there is credence to the old saying: "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter". But I really don't think we need to devolve to whataboutism here. We're talking about the actions of people storming the capitol building, to try and say 'yes well X group of people are also terrorists' is a completely moot point and an intentional deflection.

whataboutism is really just hypocritical deflection, meaning, but we're not talking about the other situation.

it's important to push back when people try to invoke "whataboutism" which is toxic to the integrity of discourse.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#620

Post by 908087 » Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 2:53 AM UTC

efwfwef wrote: post #500

asdfk-12 wrote: post #438

Half of a billion in lobbying dollars well spent by FAANG[1] - business as usual continues for facebook despite their decreasing popularity and repeated scandal and failure, from Cambridge Analytica to Libra. Those in my immediate circle have mothballed or closed their accounts, although Instagram seems to have more holding power. 1: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajdellinger/2019/04/30/how-the-...

> their decreasing popularity FTFY: in the US > repeated scandal and failure At this point what large company hasn't had breaches or cancelled projects? Hell, is your company doing OK in terms of security? Are they hashing passwords correctly? How large is the security team? My company doesn't even hash passwords... At some point you need to stop living in a bubble and recognize that plenty of people, businesses, com…

> My company doesn't even hash passwords...

I can't imagine anything even resembling a reasonable excuse for not doing something as basic as hashing passwords, and I don't even want to imagine what else isn't being done by a company which operates in that manner.