I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…
> But... There is no "buts" regarding freedom. I dont know if you have any experience with authoritarian measures but none of them starts like "This is a bad and permanent measure for no reason"... all of them are "exceptional", "to ensure public safety" ,"only valid as long as extraordinary circumstances are present"..all of them. The democrats were claiming fraud 4 years go due to a supposed Russian influence.The e…
YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#612If there is to be toleration in the world, one of the things taught in schools must be the habit of weighing evidence, and the practice of not giving full assent to propositions which there is no reason to believe true. For example, the art of reading the newspapers should be taught. The schoolmaster should select some incident which happened a good many years ago, and roused political passions in its day. He should…
You could never teach a class like this. It would unleash epistemological chaos throughout the school.
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#613We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#614This thread is fascinating. Same type of troll/sarcasm/meme comments (e.g. "orange man bad") as you find on Reddit, which are normally absent from HN. This topic clearly brings out the worst no matter where it's discussed.
Or the commentary is largely coming from those normally absent from HN.
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#615I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…
A plain and transparent democracy would be "everybody votes, the candidate with more votes wins". Instead USA has the electoral college (what for? it has to vote the same as its citizens), winning by districts (what for? districts only exist to allow gerrymandering), and vote by mail without strict controls.
I bet fewer people would complain if the system wasn't so evidently made for gaming numbers.
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#616If Google wanted to be responsible they would remove videos covering the election in any way. If there had actually been widespread fraud is this something we would want Google doing? They have said themselves that they intend to manipulate elections in the US and this is exactly how they would do it.
> They have said themselves that they intend to manipulate elections Source please. That's a bold statement.
Also, as Moway linked to in this thread¹: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#617"Yesterday was the safe harbor deadline for the U.S. Presidential election and enough states have certified their election results to determine a President-elect. Given that, we will start removing any piece of content uploaded today (or anytime after) that misleads people by alleging that widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election, in line with our approach towards historical U.S. Presidential elections."
I've paid fairly close attention to the claims of fraud, and nowhere have I seen claims of "widespread fraud".
It is simply that, just from some simple arithmetic, "widespread fraud" was not necessary to have "changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election".
Instead it was quite sufficient to have fraud in one or two cities in just the six swing states PA, MI, WI, AZ, NV, and GA. Just 10 cities is enough, and that is not "widespread".
For
"Yesterday was the safe harbor deadline for the U.S. Presidential election and enough states have certified their election results to determine a President-elect."
That statement is not the most important possible: Instead, what the states do to "certify" is not the last word. Instead there is in the Constitution:
"Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, ..."
So, in each state, the legislature STILL has the final authority. Supposedly this point was tested in the SCOTUS in 1892 and 2000 or some such.
Mayor Giuliani claims to have lots of solid evidence of fraud in the form of hundreds of signed affidavits in each of several of the six states and with enough fraud to have converted a Trump win to an apparent Biden win. By now legislatures in several of the six states have seen at least an overview of Giuliani's evidence. Still, AFAIK, no legislature has taken the Constitutional power to "direct" and "appoint" their state's electors. Some of those legislatures still could "direct" and "appoint".
It appears that going directly to the state legislatures, that is, just f'getting about all the courts except possibly the SCOTUS, could be sufficient.
The way I read the Constitution, each state legislature can take the power to "direct" and "appoint" without regard for the state constitution, the state laws, the state governor, secretary of state, AG, or board of elections and without need for the governor to *call the legislature into session". Net, anytime before the Electoral College votes, some states legislatures could still "appoint" electors that could cause Trump to win.
If there was fraud that threw the election, then as citizens we darned better well get to the bottom of it before 1/20/2021.
Some of the alleged fraud is just old fashioned ballot box stuffing. We really SHOULD be able to settle such claims solidly, for or against.
Fraud that changes an election for POTUS is a threat to our rule of law, Constitution, democracy, and country. We need a solid answer.
IMHO, Youtube should encourage full debate of these points. As it is, it appears that Youtube doesn't want videos of Trump, Giuliani, or Justices of the SCOTUS -- not so good.
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#6181) Good.
2) can other sites follow suit? Tired of all this unending nonsense without evidence about voter fraud.
Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud
#619I don't like what YouTube is doing. But... What is going on in the US just now is unprecedented in modern Western democracies - we've reached "peak fake news" in the USA. Mainstream news networks like Fox have talking heads spouting venomous lies that are demonstrably and trivially proven as such. The POTUS is lying on an hourly basis (many of those lies just brazenly , ridiculously false), and has millions of people…