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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#611
post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking in an us-vs-them mentality. Really, we should be working towards a community where people can respect differing opinions, and not just a bunch of isolated sites full of extremists on either side.

> Really, we should be working towards a community where people can respect differing opinions I agree, but there is a difference between an opinion and disinformation. FFS, masks have been made political, and only one group is doing that. Before that it was AGW, before that it was evolution. I don't know about you, but I've recognized a pattern and quite frankly have zero interest in "respecting" it.

[flagged]

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, the problem with social media is that you surround yourself with like-minded people, which diminishes your tolerance to different views. People become self righteous and can't take criticism lightly. Compare this to how things were 15 years ago, or how they are in here, where everyone and their dog can challenge your opinion. You become more open minded long term, and can handle criticism in a more…

I take the contrarian viewpoint here. I think the division is good. There's no reason people in the valley should have to live by the cultural rules of the people in Jackson Mississippi or vice versa. That's exactly what happens right now under our political system. The US has at least two distinct cultures and the more they grow to despise one another the sooner we can have an amicable divorce and allow each group t…

If we're not striving for some modicum of cultural unity, then yes, we need to get over our insistence that every solution be implemented at the federal level.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, the problem with social media is that you surround yourself with like-minded people, which diminishes your tolerance to different views. People become self righteous and can't take criticism lightly. Compare this to how things were 15 years ago, or how they are in here, where everyone and their dog can challenge your opinion. You become more open minded long term, and can handle criticism in a more…

Except for the people who simply downvote and never explain their position. Plenty of them on here.

I agree with your statement, but took a long time to decide whether the best way to endorse it was to upvote or downvote your comment. (For what it's worth, I went with upvote).

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#614
This can only lead to a further bifurcating of the electorate, and exacerbates the echo chamber phenomenon. I'm not conservative, not even close, but I do blame Facebook and Twitter for picking winners and losers and alienating conservatives.

A free speech obsessed person myself, I've been keeping a close watch. In the old days, hate speech to block meant, imminent harm. Today, someone saying I don't feel Safe has become an acceptable argument. The argument was made against a liberal signatory of the Harper letter, the argument was made against the editor of the NYT who published the Cotton piece. We've rapidly descended to calling disagreement Hate Speech. And we have double standards like the NY Post Biden debacle, where it was clear that Silicon Valley can rationalize away the most basic values of journalistic freedom. Hypocrisy does down the memory hole, it's tossed into that chute like in 1984's Ministry of Truth.

It didn't have to come to this. For those who think squashing dangerous right-wing views is good and just: what do you think will happen on Parler? Moderation? Lessons learned?

What is the end goal here, Facebook and Twitter? How do you see online discourse in ten years time?

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#615

If you look at Donald Trump's Facebook account, every post of his (including one about getting a new COVID relief bill to him to sign and one wishing people Happy Diwali) is "flagged" by Facebook with their "helpful notice". Twitter has plenty of their own notices as well, spawning several memes already[0][1]. Dick Costolo, the former CEO of Twitter, made a post about "lining up and shooting" people. AOC recently twe…

> Dick Costolo, the former CEO of Twitter, made a post about "lining up and shooting" people. AOC recently tweeted about "making lists" of opposition supporters, which was amplified by many others. The former Twitter CEO is not the POTUS, and while the tweet is distasteful, is it really surprising that Twitter doesn't have the resources to flag tweets by every user on the platform? Auto-flagging works for links, not…

Thanks for proving my point about "pretzel-like justifications"! The downvotes are also helpful since they clearly demonstrate the refusal of one group to engage and simply censor differing viewpoints by greying them out.

I hope your last sentence is made in jest, because that is not a good basis in which to engage with the world.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#616

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

I look at twitter discussions and it honestly like like a lot of people are just shouting past each other. I don't think anyone is out to win hearts and minds out there...

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#617

It’s worth noting that the first thing Parler did was start censoring anyone unsupportive of their form of conservatism. They’re not offering freer speech, they’re offering a safe space. Maybe that’s a seller, maybe it’s not, but it’s an important distinction. This is really just /r/conservative taken to its logical conclusion.

Source: https://www.cato.org/blog/twitter-alternative-they-can-keep-...

Relevant parts (reply to add if I left anything out):

> Trolls hoping to test the boundaries of Parler’s commitment to free speech and get a rise out of its users began, often vulgarly, impersonating prominent Trump supporters and conservative publications.

> Parler responded by banning the impersonating accounts, including some inoffensive parodies.

(The linked article seems to have some bias towards supporting Parler, so they may be giving Parler the benefit of doubt and framing it as a reasonable measure. BTW, kudos to parent comment for linking to a source like this - because of the article's bias towards Parler, there's no doubt to a random reader like me that these bans happened, as opposed to if it was reported by a politically opposed source. )

> A seeming[1] blanket ban of Antifa supporters from the platform, announced by founder John Matze, might be similarly understood as an antiharassment measure.

(Here the linked image seems to be implying that planned brigading was going on, to prompt the ban.)

[1] https://imgur.com/WaAMEyn

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#618
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I honestly fail to understand Do you think its possible for you to understand? Would you want to understand and learn new things? If you knew that honestly understanding would lead to mental pain and anguish as you literally would have to admit you were wrong in your past judgements and admit your view of the world was wrong, would you still want to understand? Because it will cause you pain. It even might lose you…

We had wars over this. Bigotry lost. Don't destroy the world over a failed ideology.

Bigotry is the failure to understand the other. It's literally in the definition!

To understand the other is to win against bigotry.

Don't destroy the world with bigotry disguised as righteousness. Most peace processes start with the humanising of the other and the identification of shared commonalities. Bigotry is against peace and coexistence.

To advocate for not understanding people is to destroy the world. I get why people don't want to understand others (see above comment) but I would not encourage it.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. You follow humans. Whole humans. They have every right to attract followers with technical tweets and then suddenly anger half their followers by being political come election year. I don’t think it’s possible to create a safe space from opinions you disagree with. What happens on twitter could happen with your friend or uncle. On Twitter it’s at least easy to unfollow someone and it’s not a personal trag…

It could happen, but it doesn’t happen nearly so often. I’ve had to mute one of my best friends on Twitter, because his posts are just filled with toxic bile that I’ve never seen reflected when I talk to him in person.

The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is relevant here:

https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

Except it isn't actually anonymity (or pseudonymity) per-se, as the phenomenon has long existed in many other contexts as well:

https://youtu.be/kFHT1lw3vSI

You can probably generalize to something like "technologically mediated assholism", but there is more than one thing happening here, such as:

+ Filter bubbles/homogeneous in-group opinions lead people to becoming more extreme in their views.

+ Observing some rando (it doesn't have to be an authority figure, although that helps) "say the quiet part out loud" is validating, to say the least.

+ Lack of f2f contact leads to thinking of individuals as impersonal abstractions, and in particular, as the "other".

+ The pathetic fallacy applies to groups just as it does to inanimate objects.

+ Text communication often causes people to misread tone.

+ The affective fallacy (the assumption that the effect of an action was the intent behind it) becomes particularly powerful because of the former two points.

+ The affective fallacy seems to operate in reverse too: Someone informing you of an outcome seems like they are making a claim about your intent.

+ No-one is a villain in their own story. On the internet, everything is a story, and if the story is about someone like you, obviously they can't be a villain either.

+ Exposure to information that conflicts with (even weakly held) beliefs tied to a person's identity often triggers defensive rejection of the new information and strengthens those beliefs.

+ Group dynamics are in play for public interactions, so there is always a performative aspect even for ostensibly 1-to-1 communications. This often doesn't get turned off for private electronic channels such as email.

And so on. A lot of these mental quirks are like ratchets that only ever tighten. Although each in isolation is often self limiting, the limiter can be bypassed by some other quirk, after which the ratchet can tighten some more.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#620
post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"free speech" of this type also doesn't really exist on the internet - because bots are a thing. You can't have a digital equivalent of a town square because whatever else you do, it's simply not possible to create in-person pseudo-anonymous supporters. But on the internet, this is easy - it's a damn service you can buy and it scales on the orders of 1-to-1000 or (usually much more) voices. CAPTCHA's don't solve it -…

This is exactly why I believe a dutiful representation of the 1st amendment in the Internet includes anti-botting measures, since bots flood the town-hall with un-measured broadcasting, shuttering out any and all active speech. But beyond anti-botting and one or two other very minor holds, a public forum should have no other restrictions of moderation. There is an exact restriction needed for the moderation to itself…

The problem you will run into is that the 1st amendment is a US thing and the internet is a global thing.
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