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India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

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Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#611

Post by cambalache »

ravingraven wrote: post #364
dathinab wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But YouTube is not controlled by an authoritarian fascist-like government which has a world view in direct opposition to what you could refer handwaveingly as "western" and is currently pushing to become the dominant power in the world. If you furthermore consider how bad the "western world" (mainly Britten and the East India Company) had treated it in the past, some aspects of the Chinese culture and the…

This is a joke. The "western world" created PRISM and Five Eyes and has been meddling in elections in the third world for almost a century. Additionally, what do you define as the "western world", because by some measures it includes some actually fascist governments like e.g. Saudi Arabia. A) Having democracy does not correlate with having transparency and freedom, this has been de facto proven. B) If the "western w…

But they are white and Anglos so it is OK.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#612

Post by kortilla »

pphysch wrote: post #408
kortilla wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok would be put out of business if it was critical of the head of communist party. Google/FB permit anti-Trump content and propagate articles against the administration without blowback. TikTok is bound to the CCP in a way that has no comparison in the west.

You're mistaking shallow Red/Blue political theatre for genuine (geo)political power struggles. If GOOG were to really challenge the supremacy of the US government, there would be swift consequences.

But all of these topics are easily available on google. What is it you think they censor to protect the US government?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#613

Post by hellotomyrars »

BobbyJo wrote: post #534
hellotomyrars wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfair? Unfair to who? Whether I agree with it or not (I don't). China gets to have it's cake and eat it too. Big win for China, wouldn't you say? If everyone else is willing to leave the cake on the table, It's perfectly fair for China to have it if you ask me.

Did you not read anything you're responding to? Your whole comment is senseless in context.

I don't really think it is. Regardless of the moral/ethical issues with China and it's relationship with it's own population, this is China serving it's population.

It is in China's best interest to provide maximum value for China, that includes it's citizens. I don't think it's "unfair" for China to leverage whatever tools are at its disposal for the benefit of China.

In context the argument being presented here is that other countries are failing to do what is in the best interest for their populations. I don't think that's something that China should be taken to task for in this context.

India has huge operations of illegal but semi-tolerated scams that target gullible Americans with tech scams. India is a huge developing nation and likely to become a serious economic power. They are partially doing this off the back of taking wealth from where it is concentrated and bringing it home. I don't agree with it but it makes sense for India to do it to serve it's own people.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#614

Post by kortilla »

pphysch wrote: post #421
kortilla wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. Major news networks talked about UBI during the Democrat primaries. We’re talking about what information is available in the US, not which policies have a chance in the current popular opinion.

> Yet youtube is filled with Marxist and socialist material. YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable. Do you have the numbers and relevant comparisons to back this claim?

> YouTube is filled with virtually everything imaginable.

That’s the point FFS. I responded to the notion that google only allows fake disagreement by showing two ends of the same snake.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#615

Post by xwolfi »

SllX wrote: post #594
ianleeclark wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are YouTube algorithms open? I don't really see a difference here. Nation state vs. private corporation is different on paper, but I don't see why. They're both going to react to material stimuli to increase their standings.

Nation states have military, intelligence, diplomacy and police corps. They reserve the power to stop, detain, arrest, jail, try, sentence, imprison, and kill. That’s why how we go about those things is a Big Deal, and why we have so many rules about who can go about it, how, under what circumstances, what the laws are that they’re enforcing, what the processes and procedures are for enforcement and how guilt is dete…

I think you forget a detail. Nation state, or any state, are sovereign.

If the national community agrees on something, it's all that matter. We don't have to abide by other countries standards on everything especially if we dont like it.

Im thinking as a French I had to fight a lot with free speech absolutists abroad, while at home we're quite okay with selective censorship... it sounds scary to an American sometimes, but hell we dont care :D

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#616

Post by cambalache »

pyuser583 wrote: post #235
ianleeclark wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained. It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't…

The concern is the coordination between Chinese foreign affairs/security services and the commercial sector. For US-based firms, that’s simply not the case. Yes, YouTube needs to make sure Nike is happy. But Nike didn’t just kill two dozen Indian soldiers. Certainly there’s privacy related concerns with US companies - as with Chinese companies. But nobody had accused the DoD of manipulating YouTube search rankings. I…

> The concern is the coordination between Chinese foreign affairs/security services and the commercial sector.

> For US-based firms, that’s simply not the case.

Disingenuous or naive?

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#617

Post by Thorentis »

mthoms wrote: post #466
learnstats2 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As long as the platforms recommendation and ranking algos are a black box All platforms recommendation and ranking algos are ultimately a black box. Why is TikTok special here?

TikTok is controlled by an authoritarian dictatorship engaged in a war against Western/Democratic values and human rights.

Not sure if you're talking about China or some Silicon Valley technocracies.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#618

Post by franklampard »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #602
simplify wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately In China, the government has more power than corporations. In the US, corporations have more power than the government.

Which FAANG has nukes?

Google's trove of collected personal information comparably powerful as nukes, if released.

Re: India bans TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of other Chinese apps

#619

Post by cambalache »

Veen wrote: post #253
ianleeclark wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that Chinese firms and government operates together intimately No, I get this, but here's the thing: YouTube and, more specifically, it's advertisers do everything that you're accusing China of. There are material consequences if YouTube doesn't keep in line. What this means is that a status quo that pleases advertisers will be maintained. It's every bit propaganda as dropping leaflets, but you can't…

Here's one difference: the CCP is a totalitarian dictatorship that exerts direct control over Chinese corporations. Youtube, flawed as it is, is not that.

Either you compare the CCP to the US government or Tiktok to Facebook.
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