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Richard M. Stallman resigns

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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#611

Post by booleandilemma »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)

lol

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#612

Post by jigglesniggle »

mc32 wrote: post #581
anotheryou wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand even with this resignation he doesn't appologize for anything. He could even have made his point of thinking it's a misunderstanding and appologize, but didn't.

Kevin Hart apologized for some offensive jokes, he apologized as advised by the academy, and still got cancelled. Apologizing only serves to augment the conviction of a mob intent on finding fault.

There was actually an article on HN recently about just this: executives who retained their position or high status (regardless of employer) despite "scandal" did not admit fault. Those that did never recovered.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#613

Post by squarefoot »

I wonder why on Earth did RMS embark in such a dangerous discussion. In modern times talking about those topics is just like Wile E. Coyote throwing a dozen boomerangs at the roadrunner thinking he won't be hit back by some of them.

He should have thought carefully about that: no matter if one is right or wrong, talking about that stuff in public will expose an individual to remotely controllable public anger in a way that will harm all other good stuff he does through ad-hominem attacks ("he has such opinions about rape, therefore his software sucks as do his licensing model and his opinions on closed source"). I for one still think he's a kind of good extremist the IT world badly needs, I agree at least on principle with most of his ideas and recall listening to him at a conference then handshaking him about two decades ago. Still... yeah, it was stupid from him to comment on such sensitive topics; this could harm the Free Software world in many ways, regardless of him being right or wrong, and probably someone will attempt to use that weapon.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#614

Post by JulianMorrison »

leftyted wrote: post #600
JulianMorrison wrote: post #525

Some people here seem to need it explained why RMS's comments were wrong. - Minsky is accused, by a credible victim of a non-credible, convicted pedophile, of receiving sexual contact with a woman who was underage at the time, and who was dispatched to him as part of her employment. - RMS says the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to Minsky as entirely willing. He also says that the difference bet…

> Some people here seem to need it explained why RMS's comments were wrong. This perspective is not compatible with a liberal society. Perhaps you prefer an illiberal society ruled by your ideological allies.

If it means rapey jerks shut up, bring it on.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#615

Post by CathedralBorrow »

al_form2000 wrote: post #553
jeegsy wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having the wrong opinion about certain topics is getting more expensive This is an excellent point. More and more, there is no middle ground in consequences. Nothing like a suspension? or leave of absence etc. I don't recall how things used to be but I really lament the lack of some sort of gradient scale for punishment.

Not only that, now we obviously have reliable sources to turn to to get the right opinion about stuff. O brave new world.

I'm afraid I've lost the metaphor, what's the "right opinion" about pedophilia?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#616

Post by lostjohnny »

marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

> I wish somebody would have simply advised him not to speak on such matters because nothing good could become of it

Everything good that came out of RMS is exactly because he didn't listen to those advising him to stay quiet.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#617

Post by JohnBooty »

kelnos wrote: post #478
nabla9 wrote: post #343

RMS has called himself "borderline autistic". His socially clueless black and white thinking makes it look like he is far in the spectrum. RMS is anal about meanings of terms and their use. That's not working well in the current climate where words carry perceived intent. I find myself agreeing with RMS with most of the terminology and its use in this case. Women who tell stories about him paint a picture of lonely s…

Can we please stop excusing bad behavior with some form of "oh because autism"? It's an insult to the many, many neuro-atypical people who don't say shitty, stupid things online, who don't act creepy around women, who don't have a sign on their MIT office that says "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)", who don't have a gross mattress in their office where they encourage people to lie topless, who don't try to pres…

I didn't read the parent's post as "excusing" Stallman at all.

I certainly would not excuse him! Nor should anybody else!

But given his stature, it's surely worth discussing and understanding him. And any attempt to do that would certainly have to include his famously black-and-white and self-described borderline autistic thinking.

Pointing out that somebody is austistic (or left-handed, or that they have psoriasis, or dyslexic, or seven feet tall, or...) and thinking about how that may affect their actions isn't excuse-making. It is empathy. It is critical thinking.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#618

Post by wccrawford »

DaniloDias wrote: post #540
marble-drink wrote: post #505

I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…

I prefer applying compassion to people who say stupid shit. I also prefer weirdos to Pearl Clutchers. A segment of the world may want homogeneity, but I don’t. I don’t particularly like Stallman, but I also appreciate his weirdness.

>I prefer applying compassion to people who say stupid shit.

I very much prefer this, too, so long as they show they know what they did wrong and are clear that they'll work to do better in the future.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#619

Post by GVIrish »

egdod wrote: post #564
mnm1 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ridiculous in a culture that elected and continues to support an accused rapist to its highest office. If the highest office in the nation (and many others) can have such a scumbag without him being forced to resign, how can we expect someone in Stallman's position to be perfect and PC with his speech so idiots don't misunderstand his direct style of speech? Such hypocrisy, such bullshit, this argument is.

> accused rapist That’s the standard for being “canceled” now? An accusation? Anybody can accuse people of things. We have courts and the presumption of innocence for a reason.

Credibly accused rapist.

The courts are for determining whether someone should go to jail. But anyone can draw conclusions about whether or not they want to deal with someone who is accused of a crime.

Someone might be accused of child molestation, but never stood trial. Would a parent then be obligated to be ok with the accused being alone with their children since 'hey he's innocent until proven guilty'? Should someone who had been credibly accused of many instances of sexual misconduct be trusted as if they are a model citizen?

The presumption of innocence is there to ensure someone gets a fair trial in court. It doesn't mean everyone else has to ignore evidence of criminal conduct until a conviction comes down. It also doesn't always mean that someone who was found not guilty by a criminal court, didn't actually do what they were accused of. It just means the court didn't find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#620

Post by kstenerud »

harshaw wrote: post #571
kstenerud wrote: post #509

It's unfortunate that scarlet letter offences are still alive and well in today's culture. Normally, when someone engages in behavior seen as offensive, the procedure is to pressure the person to apologize and mend his ways, and only get rid of him if he refuses to do so. But when a "scarlet letter" offence is involved, we jump straight to the punishment phase, removing the person outright with no judicial process. T…

The challenge is: there is ample evidence that misogyny (and similar offenses) has been unacceptable for years, but it continues. Part of the me-to movement, the election of Trump, ( and the Epstein blowback) is that we need to just stop. And that's why the pressure is there if people can't understand that this sort of behavior in unacceptable in 2019, they need to GTFO.

In which case, it's on MIT and the FSF to stand up and take charge, saying "You either change your ways and apologize, or else you're out."

But what we've seen instead is cowardly throwing someone to the baying crowd.

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