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SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

nytimes.com

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Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#611

Post by remarkEon »

svd4anything wrote: post #527
rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

The more I reflect on your comment the more obvious to me it is that the situation is ultra urgent. Somebody needs to get a class action going asap, tomorrow. Its so so true that so many Asian families have made massive financial and personal sacrifices in the hope to provide their children the best opportunities possible. This is clearly protected activity under the founding documents of our nation, pursuing life, l…

There's going to be a lot of Veterans that feel the same way. Imagine serving in the military for a while, saving up money to move somewhere where your kids will have good schools and good quality of life, getting a good job after working your ass off to jump careers, and then have the College Board tell you that this will disadvantage your child when applying to college. This is insane.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#613

Post by uptownfunk »

This whole thing is about who deserves the opportunity for higher education.

The truth is, except for a small handful of schools (whose seats are mostly already spoken for, either through donors, athletes, or the elite prodigies who are going to get in regardless of their socioeconomic background) it is almost irrelevant whether or not you go to school A or school B in the long run.

Your grit, your personal talents, your luck/karma/destiny etc are basically what carry you through anyway.

Anyone who blames their failure in life on “some kid took my seat at Harvard because adversity score” probably doesn’t have what it takes to make it anyway.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#614

Post by jessaustin »

mehrdadn wrote: post #250
adbge wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh, do you think the right is going to improve upon the US's current system of incentivizing/forcing families to fight over/make big sacrifices for homes in the wealthiest school districts in order to give their children a half-decent shot at a good education? Yes? Ever heard of school vouchers? The political right would love to reform the education system, from teachers unions to university professors, the entrenc…

> Yes? Ever heard of school vouchers? Wikipedia sums it up: "the evidence to date is not sufficient to warrant recommending that vouchers be adopted on a widespread basis ; however, multiple positive findings support continued exploration." Seems pretty reasonable that we don't let people replace the entire country's educational system with this new one until the evidence in favor of it is extremely compelling.

Didn't your public school teach you not to consider Wikipedia a convincing reference for validating political opinions? Maybe you could have used some vouchers...

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#615

Post by gwright »

rayiner wrote: post #419
darawk wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine to recognize it. But if you say, z-score applicants by their 'adversity score' peer group, then you negate the impact of their parents efforts. If you negate their parents efforts, you make it not worthwhile for their parents to make those efforts in the first place. If you make it not worthwhile to make those efforts, they won't be made. And society as a whole will be worse off for it.

The whole point is to devalue those efforts. I thought OP wanted “equality of opportunity.” You can’t have equality of opportunity if some kids get a head start because of their parents.

I really don't like where you are going with this. It is too close to an anti-intellectualism theory for my comfort.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#616

Post by bloaf »

rayiner wrote: post #419
darawk wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine to recognize it. But if you say, z-score applicants by their 'adversity score' peer group, then you negate the impact of their parents efforts. If you negate their parents efforts, you make it not worthwhile for their parents to make those efforts in the first place. If you make it not worthwhile to make those efforts, they won't be made. And society as a whole will be worse off for it.

The whole point is to devalue those efforts. I thought OP wanted “equality of opportunity.” You can’t have equality of opportunity if some kids get a head start because of their parents.

I don't think you can ever eliminate that, short of removing kids from their parents Plato's Republic style.

Adding more rules will just create perverse incentives (e.g. parents incentivized to increase crime rate in their neighborhoods to boost their children's scores.)

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#617

Post by intended »

lettergram wrote: post #469
thosakwe wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. So, a separate number being added to College Board's overall package is secret discrimination against Asian students? The "adversity score," according to the article, is calculated based on 15 different factors. The two listed (relative quality of the student’s high school and the crime rate/poverty level of the student’s home neighborhood) are not directly tied to…

> I know that promoting affirmative action is tantamount to blasphemy on this site, but let's be honest here. Yes, let's be honest! I was from one of those locations where "adversity" would have benefited me. Worst school district in the state, low income, etc. I am and I suspect will continue to be upset that the harder I work, the less benefit I receive. I pulled myself out of that situation. People in similar situ…

>If they don't have drive, they likely wouldn't succeed anyway and they are taking the spot of someone with said drive.

I promise you that I know people who, in a short few months, who burn the light out of the brightest soul.

Make them that test subject’s parent and I’ll give you a sure shot to medicority and a life of emotional issues.

Anecdote is never data. On a large enough scale of human data we see that programs that improve basic things like food, interaction with parents and teachers - all improve student outcomes.

Unsurprisingly - these are also things that better off families tend to take care off and spend their resources on.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#618

Post by fastball »

lenkite wrote: post #572
GhostVII wrote: post #215

I think instead of trying to lower the bar for low income students, we should work on solving the actual problems causing them to perform more poorly on the SAT (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills). If students are accepted with a lower SAT score because of their background, they are likely going to struggle in University, since they have lower scores than the rest of their class, s…

I believe all the problems you have mentioned can be easily solved. Permit adversity scores to weigh in favour of course grades and graduate honors. Legislation can be passed to ensure adversity scores count towards corporate and government employment to prevent any bumps further down the road. Furthermore, adversity scores should also be counted towards recruitment in elite military units, selection for senior milit…

Had me going for a second.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#619

Post by mgkimsal »

codernyc16 wrote: post #604
mgkimsal wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what if they aren't practicing every second? what if it simply comes out 100% effortlessly? how do you define "earn"? only X hours of obsessive practice? does their skill not count because they didn't put in years of 'hard work'?

> what if it simply comes out 100% effortlessly? What magical world do you live in? Have you ever acquired any skill in your life?

Did you see the reference to 'autistic savant' up above? That was the example referenced. And even if someone does work/practice some, if the effort is minimal relative to other people ('normal' people, or what not), does it diminish the ability because they didn't "work hard" for it?

personally, I'm no savant, but as a child I really didn't have to work hard at anything in school. I was pushed up a grade, and was still at the top of that class, and bored, for years. i put in basically no effort in to any schooling for years, and was still, generally, way ahead of many other students who, looking back now, were struggling (this was in the day when students could be 'held back' to repeat a grade - I don't think that's done much today?).

i have learned plenty of skills, and some took years, and it's never ending. but some came - essentially - effortlessly (or appeared effortless relative to peers' efforts).

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#620

Post by bloaf »

rayiner wrote: post #362
darawk wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and his point is why should his dad make that sacrifice for his kids if the SAT board is just going to subvert his efforts?

Why should the College Board not recognize that kids in fact have unequal opportunities for reasons totally outside their control?

The crime rate in a neighborhood is actually something kids can control (i.e. they can commit crimes to boost their scores).
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