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New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

radionz.co.nz

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Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#611

Post by sjwright »

ams6110 wrote: post #544
sjwright wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they saw it was a working computer. Airline security don't care what operating system your computer runs, they care if the laptop has been hollowed out and filled with C4.

Of course these days you could have a Raspberry Pi in a corner of the laptop case and the rest of it filled with whatever contraband, and still present a "working" computer to the security screener.

Nobody would seriously claim that airport security is an effective way of stopping determined people. It is a deterrent that works to catch thoroughly stupid people and to make smart people dwell on the anxiety of getting caught.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#612

Post by blattimwind »

reaperducer wrote: post #378
wutbrodo wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say "don't go to Canada", but I'm not sure how common this is across the world. Does anyone have a sense of how common this draconian approach is? I have a US passport and have been to about 25 countries on six continents and have never experienced this, but borders see such mind bogglingly high numbers pass through that I wouldn't say I have a robust set of data points.

I would say "don't go to Canada", but I'm not sure how common this is across the world. The more you travel, the more common it is. The phone thing is somewhat new, ever since certain companies started selling devices to governments that let them crack, examine, and archive your phone. But being hassled at the border has always been a risk. Before it was terrorism, it was drugs, or just the change in culture. I've ha…

> I've read that if you have stamps in your passport from certain Middle Eastern countries, you can't get into some other Middle Eastern countries.

Normally you can get two/three passports for that reason.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#613

Post by ElCapitanMarkla »

strictnein wrote: post #539
edraferi wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no right to privacy when crossing an international border. The solution is simple - don't carry any data you don't want to give to the country you're entering.

This is 100% the right solution, and there's a pretty easy way to accomplish this, with iPhones at least: Back up to iCloud Wipe your phone Cross the border Restore from iCloud And yes, this may fail visiting China, because who knows what the Great Firewall will block.

I've got an old iPhone 5 burner I use for international travel. It's a slight hassle but I'd rather that than someone going through all my texts, emails and pics etc.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#614

Post by angry_octet »

bigiain wrote: post #517
Kadin wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on when it happened. There have been times when there have been workable exploits that have been used by law enforcement agencies. There's a fairly high-profile Israeli company that specializes in finding or buying zero-day exploits and reselling them in script-kiddie form to law enforcement agencies at high prices.

I wonder if random power tripping border security goons get to use zero day exploits just for kicks?

Odays often have a finite lifetime. Once you have bought an exploit you may as well use it. Cellebrite and Greycode produce reliable and surprisingly functional gear. Apple and other vendors obviously try to discover what exploit is being used, and exploit vendors try to hide the technique. I suspect this is why sometimes the device is never returned.

Generally I wouldn't characterise the customs people as goons. Like most LE jobs they see some nasty stuff. I'm talking paedophilia and violent pornography. They also deal with some really sketchy characters and if you trigger that detection you are definitely getting extra scrutiny.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#615

Post by angry_octet »

strictnein wrote: post #539
edraferi wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have no right to privacy when crossing an international border. The solution is simple - don't carry any data you don't want to give to the country you're entering.

This is 100% the right solution, and there's a pretty easy way to accomplish this, with iPhones at least: Back up to iCloud Wipe your phone Cross the border Restore from iCloud And yes, this may fail visiting China, because who knows what the Great Firewall will block.

I'm sure you won't get any extra attention if you show them a freshly wiped phone, totally normal.

Unfortunately I think you'd have to have the phone activated with a different Apple account. But if they ask you questions (like "do you have any other icloud accounts") don't lie, it never makes it better. Just say that this is your travel account. This is now quite standard practice for execs when travelling to e.g. China.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#616

Post by angry_octet »

blattimwind wrote: post #612
reaperducer wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say "don't go to Canada", but I'm not sure how common this is across the world. The more you travel, the more common it is. The phone thing is somewhat new, ever since certain companies started selling devices to governments that let them crack, examine, and archive your phone. But being hassled at the border has always been a risk. Before it was terrorism, it was drugs, or just the change in culture. I've ha…

> I've read that if you have stamps in your passport from certain Middle Eastern countries, you can't get into some other Middle Eastern countries. Normally you can get two/three passports for that reason.

Really? I've not heard of countries issuing multiple simultaneous passports unless you have official or diplomatic status.

Previously the Israelis stapled a piece of paper with a stamp on it, you take it out before you go to the GCC. Now its not even stapled. (They photograph your passport & stamp pages though...) https://www.touristisrael.com/the-israeli-passport-stamp/974...

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#617

Post by blattimwind »

angry_octet wrote: post #616
blattimwind wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've read that if you have stamps in your passport from certain Middle Eastern countries, you can't get into some other Middle Eastern countries. Normally you can get two/three passports for that reason.

Really? I've not heard of countries issuing multiple simultaneous passports unless you have official or diplomatic status. Previously the Israelis stapled a piece of paper with a stamp on it, you take it out before you go to the GCC. Now its not even stapled. (They photograph your passport & stamp pages though...) https://www.touristisrael.com/the-israeli-passport-stamp/974...

> Really? I've not heard of countries issuing multiple simultaneous passports unless you have official or diplomatic status.

Germany and I think most other EU countries with heavy industries absolutely do this, because it is necessary to do business in the middle east.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#618

Post by angry_octet »

jessaustin wrote: post #368
paradite wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be very honest, I find the methodology very similar to what drug trafficker would do to hide their drugs. And I don't think this method will end well for all parties either way. If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. If customs officers somehow detects you are doing this, you risk obstructing security measures.

If it works, customs officers cannot find actual illegal contents, and criminals walk free through customs. "Illegal contents", as in what? Unflattering cartoons of the president? A spreadsheet marked "cocaine delivery schedule"? Why is this on the alleged criminal's phone while she's crossing the border? Has she never heard of the internet? No real criminal could be caught by any of this buffoonery. Lots of normal p…

Real criminals are caught by this all the time. A lot of these guys are scaping the bottom of the IQ barrel.

But a lot of the agents will have MAGA hats in their car, so I probably wouldn't have unflattering Trump cartoons on my phone. Though I would love it if EVERYONE had 'fuck trump' as their phone background.

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#619

Post by angry_octet »

pastor_elm wrote: post #425
wild_preference wrote: post #257

Happened to a female friend flying from Toronto to visit me in Mexico. Because she had a connecting flight in US, a US agent went through her phone. (Classic mistake of entering the US unless absolutely neccessary) Guy was reading her Tinder messages and accusing her of being a prostitute. He brought up some saucy messages and would say things like “girls don’t do this kind of stuff for free...” Finally handed her ba…

> would say things like “girls don’t do this kind of stuff for free... Should have replied, "Maybe Stateside, they don't!"

How about "How much do you pay?"

Re: New Zealand travellers refusing digital search now face $5k Customs fine

#620

Post by angry_octet »

A2017U1 wrote: post #280
grkvlt wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets not get too excited. There were about 40 million passengers transiting NZ airports last year, according to Wikipedia.[0] The article says roughly 540 devices were searched in the same time period. That's 0.00135% or basically a dozen people per million being searched. That hardly seems like totalitarian overreach. In fact it seems quite restrained and pretty reasonable - and presumably must be intelligence led,…

This only applies to those passing through international customs, under 4 million arrivals last year, half of them Australian, who bypass customs anyway. Searching for the 540 figure it appears to be mobile phones only, there was another 300 computers. So ~840 searches for 2 million people. https://www.mbie.govt.nz/info-services/sectors-industries/to... https://fyi.org.nz/request/1119-how-many-digital-devices-are...

Umm, no, Australians don't get to bypass NZ customs. What if we had some seeds or dirt on our shoes? Or some fruit?

But yeah there wouldn't be many searches.

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