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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

ifixit.org

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#611
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially in cases when it doesn't need to be thinner. I just tried out a Apple Magic Keyboard, which is a razor blade for some reason, and had wrist pain within a few hours of using it. Everybody's different, but this keyboard is trash. It is designed solely to look pretty in marketing photos. I'm not a keyboard snob. I don't need Cherry MX Blue's to be happy. I thought the Apple Wireless Keyboard (with the AA batt…

I am currently using this horrible keyboard. Hate this thing. Before I've been using a mechanical keyboard, but coworkers complained that it was too loud. I like loud keybords. The sound is so pleasant and satisfying I want it to be even more intense. I want to feel vibration every time I hit the key. And when I hit enter I want there to be a minor earthquake. This apple trash keyboard doesn't have Shift+Insert. The…

> This apple trash keyboard doesn't have Shift+Insert. The alt is next to ctrl and it's place is taken by cmd.

Macs have had a different keyboard layout to PCs for decades. The keyboard you describe is what Mac users expect.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#612

I love iFixit. I used them extensively when I used to run a cell phone repair shop. I don't read them much any more, but they stick to their principles and provide amazing insight. Since the iPhone 3GS, one of Apple's priorities has been to make their devices less repairable. They have made conscious decisions that actually make the device cost more, such as introducing pentalobe fasteners for their iPhone 4 partway…

I'd gladly pay apple 300 dollars for a copy of OSX I could run on generic PC hardware.

macOS is for me, largely just easier, for most of the things I want to do, it 'just works' - in essence, I'm paying up front, for less effort later - at least thats how I see it anyhow.

Having used the Linux subsystem in windows, I dont think I could do any serious work in it, outside of say developing a linux console application, even basic functionality like ping doesnt work (in the version I have) - its great for lightweight testing, and to have a unix shell that you can use unix tools in (sed, awk, etc) but its not the same thing as a full unix.

While I'm sure that usability of Linux as a Desktop is better than it was a decade ago, at a glance, it doesnt appear to be better enough to replicate the experience I have in macOS.

In the end, I just hope Apple releases better hardware before I need to upgrade.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#613
post #376

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

Especially in cases when it doesn't need to be thinner. I just tried out a Apple Magic Keyboard, which is a razor blade for some reason, and had wrist pain within a few hours of using it. Everybody's different, but this keyboard is trash. It is designed solely to look pretty in marketing photos. I'm not a keyboard snob. I don't need Cherry MX Blue's to be happy. I thought the Apple Wireless Keyboard (with the AA batt…

Short-travel keyboards are, by some studies, less likely to cause RSI than typewriter-style longer-travel keyboards. At the very least, there is reason to question why emulating the key travel of a mechanical typewriter linkage makes sense versus short travel, or even no-travel haptic feedback.

I think Apple's keyboards, when they work, work really well. And you can get them without number pads so your hand isn't traversing a wasteland of wasted keys to get to the mouse.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#614
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd agree with that, I run stock ubuntu on a thinkpad t460p. I have only one issue which is that display scaling is not fractional, its in set values which doesn't play well with resolutions above 1080p. Thats a gnome issue though and doesn't stop the screen working perfectly when the resolution is set to 1080p instead of 2550x1440 or whatever it is.

This is trivial to fix actually. Ubuntu 16.04 had "fractional" scaling by default but in reality all it did was between 1x and 2x use 1x with larger fonts. 18.04 lost that with the gnome transition but you can just change the font scaling manually. Less convenient and polished but still there in the tweak tool. Firefox also includes a scaling option in the configs. With those two settings my T460s with the 2560x1440…

Thats interesting to know, thanks for the tip!

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#615

Apple. This issue is seriously simple. Take the previous design, you know the one from late 2012 to 2015. If you must (sigh), take out the SD card, HDMI, USB A, MagSafe and replace with USB-C. I don't know who suggested this, but whatever. Don't add in a touch bar. Don't add in an over sized touchpad. Leave the keyboard alone. The layout of the model is amazing. I purchased a late 2012 in Jan '13. It's been my daily…

> - the screen to 4k

If they bump it up (which would be a good idea) they'll likely go 3x (4329 x 2700 on the 15") not 4K.

> - the memory to 32GB

That's the one I don't see happening. Much of Apple's tradeoffs are about keeping battery life in the face of design stupidity, dropping LPDDR is very unlikely.

> - the SSD speed and give me options of 1TB and 2TB.

Both options exist (on the 15") and AFAIK Apple has pretty fast SSDs, the main issue with them is that they're soldered not that they're slow.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#616

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

"I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle."

Here's a hypothesis:

For many years, before the iPhone, Apple's computer business was built around keeping its loyal customer base happy. That base would buy new Macs by default, but would stop doing so if the long-term experience of using them went down too far. So Apple focused on long-term quality.

Now, their computer business is built around seducing iPhone users, most of whom who are now using Windows computers, into moving to the Mac world. The vast majority of such users base their decisions on little more than what looks best in the showroom. For that showroom seduction to occur, Macs are better off being the hottest looking computers there. Whether or not their keyboards work for much more than two weeks after purchase is far less important. (14 days being the period of the Apple return policy.)

Another factor: there is little reason for annual or bi-annual replacement of fully functioning computers any more. I'm still happy with my mid-2012 MBP. In the old days, Intel chips got faster according to Moore's law, and new software took advantage of that speed, so you really had to replace hardware at a fairly rapid pace to not experience everything getting slower and slower year-by-year. But the speed of my 2012 MPB is just fine. The situation is night-and-day different than it used to be.

So, once Apple achieves that initial showroom seduction, even if the user doesn't end up being particularly happy with their machine, they probably aren't going to buy another one for 5 or so years anyway. So customer dissatisfaction isn't going to be felt for that much time.

Moreover, from what I'm seeing, customer experience in the Windows world isn't consistently better, so word-of-mouth isn't particularly likely to pull the average user away from the Apple ecosystem and the way everything works together, and years of their emails and documents being stored in the Apple cloud which they'd lose access to, or go which they'd have to through the pain of moving elsewhere.

Overall, if making ever-more money is Apple's only real goal, focusing on thinness over all else is arguably a rational choice, as long as thinness makes Macs look sexier in the showroom.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#617
While I do like Apple and their integrated hardware/software platform (see my problems with Dell XPS 15 reported in another comment), this also shows the problems with a monopole producer of macOS hardware.

I still run a 2009 iMac and a 2013 MBP. The MBP is still fine but I'd prefer to replace the iMac with a desktop with external screen. But there is no hardware worth its price!

The Mac Pro is great, but too expensive for hardware from 2013. The Mac mini has the same problem, but even worse, the existing hardware isn't fast.

This shouldn't happen if multiple companies were in competition for great Mac hardware.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#618

Apple. This issue is seriously simple. Take the previous design, you know the one from late 2012 to 2015. If you must (sigh), take out the SD card, HDMI, USB A, MagSafe and replace with USB-C. I don't know who suggested this, but whatever. Don't add in a touch bar. Don't add in an over sized touchpad. Leave the keyboard alone. The layout of the model is amazing. I purchased a late 2012 in Jan '13. It's been my daily…

You can get a 15" old chassis MBP with new components: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=MJLQ2...

What are you waiting for?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#619

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

It might be a racket, like the software/hardware market. Intel and OS/Software manufacturers are in cahoots to constantly design apps that require beefier hardware so that people have to constantly upgrade. The same might go for cell phone manufacturers. They intentionally leave a market for accessories so that their partners can make more money and to ensure support/staying quiet.

I don't really believe that software developers intentionally write bloated code. It's just that most dev shops only fix performance issues when they become apparent on current-gen hardware.

As hardware gets better and better, the bar for "ok, this is too slow, let's go back to the drawing board optimize it" gets higher and higher.

Skype on my 4-year old phone is laughably slow, but I bet it'd be a lot faster if the devs did not have the latest and greatest in hardware.

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