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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#611

Post by drovo9 »

wpietri wrote: post #425
dcow wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument here is that people like you label anything you don't agree with as "intolerant" and justify social lynching of the ideas based on your likely angry or frustrated emotional assessment. This didn't start with James, although that's one of the more popular incidents. Disagreeing with operational policies that are based on politically charged ideas that we need to correct for the inequalities in outcomes ra…

No, intolerance is a specific term of art here, not just anything lefties don't like. For example, look at the US right's decades-long pursuit of anti-GLBTQ policies. Gay people mostly just want to be left alone to live their lives. the US right wants to use the power of the state to discriminate against them. It went so far in California that Prop 8 specifically rewrote the constitution to strip the right of equal p…

For example, look at the US right's decades-long pursuit of anti-GLBTQ policies. Gay people mostly just want to be left alone to live their lives.

Being left alone is all I ever wanted as a gay man. But the gay rights activists are demanding all sorts of positive rights and privileges from the government, and worse yet, they are trying to do it in my name.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#612

Post by askafriend »

refurb wrote: post #217
askafriend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed…

Let me guess, you don't know any Trump supporters?

I've lived in the east coast, the west coast, the midwest, and the south all for extended periods in my life. I've lived in so many states in this country that I know intimately the diverse viewpoints and diverse culture that exists across America.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#613

Post by darepublic »

manfredo wrote: post #567
s73v3r_ wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor have I. I think it’s similar to the “War on Christmas,” it’s not something that is actually happening, but people like to pretend it is.

I have never seen a woman being harassed or otherwise mistreated in the workplace. Should I conclude that women do not experience harassment or mistreatment in tech?

I have witnessed women being sexually harassed by some definition of the term or put down in a sexist way at every tech job I've been at. That being said I am against affirmative action.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#614

Post by askafriend »

lr4444lr wrote: post #546
askafriend wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed…

When people supported Malcolm X, did they support his anti-semitism as well? Older people almost always have disproportionately higher turnout in elections.

There is leadership and then there are ideas.

It is entirely possible to support someone's form of leadership without entirely supporting all of the person's ideas.

That's why I specifically said Trump's vile brand of leadership. It's OK to agree or disagree with his ideas, but leadership is far more than having good or bad ideas. Leadership is ultimately about people and having a selfless, coherent vision for the people you represent.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#615

Post by drovo9 »

wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

welcoming history and the paradox of tolerance

The "paradox of tolerance" is only a paradox if you assume that society can determine objectively for its citizens what constitutes "tolerant" and "intolerant" behavior; such societies are by necessity totalitarian.

In a free society, there is no paradox of tolerance; in free societies, individuals make their own choices and judgments about each other, and there are many different, conflicting views about which choices are tolerant and which are intolerant.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#616

Post by Fins »

Barrin92 wrote: post #399
Fins wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>racist/sexist/homophobic/anti-welfare-state politics This is not exactly what "conservative thought" is, but the conflation does nicely demonstrate SV's toxic mix of ignorance and intolerance.

Thiel is pretty deep into the 'neoreactionary' subculture with a distinct anti-democratic and racist bent. You're right to say that this isn't exactly conservative thought, but it is the sort of thought that comes from the people who are criticising the valley from the inside. The Curtis Yarvin types seem to be involved in the newest criticism against 'valley liberalism' more than genuinely conservative groups. I've…

He well might be, although the accusations of racism all seem to point at some very anciuent and rather vague hearsay.

Economically SV may not be too far from the mainstream, because really, if you drive away not only Thiel but the rest of VCs, who's gonna throw millions on your new world-changing blockchain crowdsourced augmented-reality chat app?!

Socially, though, SV positions itself far, far left of not only mainstream, but even of the outer fringes of common sense. Which comes out quite ironic in the end, e.g. when you look at tyhe stuff in Damore's lawsuit (the ones still proceeding) vs. the fact that Google is simultaneously being sued for underpaying women.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#617

Post by Fins »

bsder wrote: post #547

So we should all take a lesson from how people in the Bible belt treat those who are agnostic or atheist, right? If the Valley is such a "liberal echo chamber", why is it that women, homosexual, transsexuals, etc. are the ones still receiving the death threats. When I see rich, conservative, white men shivering in fear from getting death threats for expressing their religious or political beliefs, I'll worry about yo…

Didn't Damore receive threats of physical violence? And he's no Thiel by any stretch of imagination.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#618

Post by telchar »

dcow wrote: post #587
telchar wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would suggest trying to use a different term than "social lynching". It is a hyperbolic word that describes actions that are quite out of proportion with what might be called "actual lynching". Loss of a specific, typically rarified, job is far less consequential than death. Using that term is going ensure that a large portion of the population disregards your argument out of disgust (at the co-opting of a historic…

I hear you. What would you suggest instead?

That's a fair question. After a bit of thought the best I could come up with are, depending on situation:

driven to professional exile

ridden out on a [digital] rail

digital skimmington

pilloried

[digitally/professionally] tarred and feathered

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#619

Post by mrep »

cgag wrote: post #269
_skel wrote: post #169

I don't get it. I grew up in Silicon Valley and I work in tech, and so do many other people I know. They run the gamut from far-left socialists to libertarians to own a bunch of guns. They have all kinds of ethnic backgrounds and religious views. Some of my most libertarian/pro-gun friends have not been shy about their political views and it hasn't hurt their tech careers at all. They are far more welcome here than l…

The people I'm honest with about my politics are people I've sort of slowly sussed out as cool, we're all pretty afraid to state many of our actual opinions because we're not rich. I don't care very much but there are a ton of people out there afraid of being damore'd.

> I don't care very much but there are a ton of people out there afraid of being damore'd.

Seriously, here is how it went down from what I remember:

Damore writes controversial internal only paper -> another googler takes the document meant for internal only viewing and shares it with the media -> someone removes most/all graphs and citations to make it look more like an opinion piece (most likely to flame up more media attention) -> journalist posts internal document without permission from company.

That is at least 2 people going out of there way (in a most likely illegal way too) essentially trying to start a witch hunt on this guy and ruin his life for writing 1 paper just because they do not agree with him.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#620

Post by chillwaves »

Covzire wrote: post #103
tomcam wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was supporting Trump absurd?

Have you ever noticed that that phrase "I may not agree with you, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death!" (heard it a lot after the 2003 Iraq Invasion) is almost universally applied from Right to Left and almost never the other way around? That to me is a great indicator for which side is much more authoritarian.

No, I haven't.
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