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How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

nytimes.com

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Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#611

Post by aantix »

azernik wrote: post #582
aantix wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How dare Rosa Parks defiantly take a seat at the front of the bus.. How could she be so self-centered and... adolescent?

She was not, as far as I understand, opposed to laws just because they are laws. She had very specific moral objections to very specific laws. Anti-racism != anarchism.

Uber is... Anarchy? Like in the movie Thunderdome? Sure.

Their opposition wasn't arbitrary; they knew they could provide a better service outside the monopolistic constraints that were already in place. So they fought those battles and because of those battles, everyone gets to experience a much better ride service than the antiquated taxi system.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#612

Post by deegles »

nemacol wrote: post #100
lacampbell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the US government much, but I like it a lot better than the average multinational. When it comes down to it, we don't have more than our choice of devils. If I don't like Uber, I can... stop using Uber. What can I do if I don't like the service a state provides - can I opt out and stop paying? No, my only option is to flee - which the state will often try and prevent you doing anyway. The state is a huge…

You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. The only thing you can do with Uber is use it or not. Maybe you could write Uber a letter. You have a say in government - that is its stated goal and purpose. Of the people for the people.

I could get a job at Uber and try to fix it from the inside. Or lobby the government to regulate them.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#613

Post by camus2 »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #533
ForHackernews wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how any entity (including Uber) has an obligation to make it easy for the law to ticket them. Corporate citizens have an obligation to obey the laws of the jurisdictions in which they operate. If they find the laws unacceptable, they should lobby to have them changed.

Do regular citizens, such as Rosa Parks, not have the same obligation? Personally I consider civil disobedience of unjust laws to be acceptable, for either a single person or for an organized group of people (such as Uber).

Yeah, Rosa Parks civil disobedience was a for profit operation! Please stop insulting her. Uber is the embodiment of corporate evil, these people think they are above the law.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#614

Post by leroy_masochist »

dpatru wrote: post #595
leroy_masochist wrote: post #352

I wonder what rate of false negatives is, in terms of assigning Greyball status to someone who is not in fact a local official conducting a sting operation. Picture a 19-year-old woman in college whose dad convinced her to put Uber on her phone so she'd have a way to get home safely at night -- and linked her account up to his credit card so she wouldn't worry about having to afford the ride. Now picture her leaving…

Your example would be better put to government officials trying to shut down Uber.

That's a very fair point.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#615

Post by camus2 »

aantix wrote: post #570
TeMPOraL wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here I thought that's just teenagers "who fit the techno-libertarian or cypherpunk mentality", and only until they finally grow up. The mindset you're describing is pretty self-centered and ignorant of how societies work. The law is there to reconcile conflicting interest so that people don't start using violence to pursue their goals. Techno-libertarian teenagers should imagine what would happen if some people t…

How dare Rosa Parks defiantly take a seat at the front of the bus.. How could she be so self-centered and... adolescent?

Yeah, Rosa Parks civil disobedience was a for profit operation! Please stop insulting her. Uber is the embodiment of corporate evil, these people think they are above the law.

It's strange how I need to copy and paste my arguments on this thread, like you know Uber was itself astro-turfing HN right now.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#617

Post by hammock »

maldusiecle wrote: post #271
hammock wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can vote, run for office, petition, volunteer, protest,etc to the local, state, and federal government to have policies that reflect your values. You can do ALL of those things with uber. You can vote as a shareholder, apply for a job, petition, volunteer, protest, etc...

I would've thought that the difference between "vote" and "vote as a shareholder" would have been obvious enough, but just to make it clear: I don't consider it a good thing if the only people with a say in things are the ones who have money. This is the difference between a democracy and a corporation. I find it really unsettling how many people on HN seem to need this distinction explained.

Actually if you are a shareholder you DON'T have money...In the sense that you gave it up to have a say in the company.

Similarly you give something up (social contract) to have a say in government

You clearly come from a difference place on this issue so I don't expect you to understand what I'm saying but I'd be pleased if you did.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#618

Post by anon74574873891 »

danielweber wrote: post #423
accountface wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're trying to become too big to fail, but aren't quite there yet. Essentially they're undercutting all competitors by artificially keeping fares very low and subsidizing drivers. Subsidies were the primary source of their enormous financial losses in 2016. Once the competition is completely gone (local cabs, and Lyft in some areas), then they can stop subsidizing themselves and basically hold a monopoly. It's the…

I simply don't see how Uber can be a monopoly. You need a critical mass of drivers, but nothing stops drivers from being on multiple networks. This isn't Microsoft doing per-CPU licensing.

While I agree with your first statement, the per-CPU analogy may not be right. The CPU (or car) is the resource being leveraged by the OS (or ride hailing service). Also, I may be wrong here but I think it's per motherboard.

For Uber to really become a monopoly would be hard, at best they could split the field with Lyft or others by making an under the table anti-"employee"-sharing agreement similar to the Apple-Google thing last year.

Re: How Uber Used Secret “Greyball” Tool to Deceive Authorities Worldwide

#619

Post by skookumchuck »

LnxPrgr3 wrote: post #593
skookumchuck wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples that illustrate your assertion, please.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jul/01/macys-shopl... Not killing, but taking of liberty and property through their own extrajudicial system of justice.

And a judge ruled that Macy's did not have a legitimate power to do that. This example does not make the case that corporations have such power.
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