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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#611

Post by kderbe »

PKop wrote: post #389

As a Trump supporter many of the comments resonated. In regards to upholding and celebrating American culture I always have this thought: Why do silicon valley types promote the concept of a "company culture" and feel it's important enough to base hiring decisions on, while demeaning those that want to uphold and sustain their own country's culture in the same manner? You hear it time and time again when a CEO stress…

The argument that America even has a singular culture to preserve is, I think, a false premise. America is multi-cultural. There are American _ideals_ which can be preserved ("life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"), but the country is too big and too varied for anyone to claim that there is a specific American culture, or that there has been since its founding.

America is Indian, Mexican, and Muslim. Not "them", but "us". Maybe some Trump supporters disagree?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#612

Post by freen »

phkahler wrote: post #440
jstimpfle wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

OK, I'll bite: >> What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? I don't buy that CO2 emissions are going to be a problem. I don't buy that the observed changes in climate are due to CO2. >> What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts?…

Your "evidence" is links to google searches?

Climate modeling is hard, of course it is. Many things are hard. You don't doubt planes because building jet engines is hard, do you?

Do you honestly think climate scientists would forget about water? Really?

Or not know about the history of our planets climate?

Dangerously close to having too little CO2?

I don't doubt that you believe what you say you do, but you sound more like anti-vaxxers than you sound like a medical professional calmly explaining well documented research of vaccination.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#613

Post by jimmywanger »

Arizhel wrote: post #547
jimmywanger wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that That mindset is the sort of thing the article is talking about. First, you're talking about Trump, his supporters and evil in the same sentence. That's polarizing and does nothing except make you feel righteous. Also, acting like Nazis? That sort of emotional trigger word has been done to death. Also, Trump d…

>Trump also has a daughter that converted to Judaism and a Jewish son-in-law. Calling him a Nazi or Nazi-like in his actions is silly and counter productive. I have to disagree here. I think it's fairly obvious that Trump is not an actual Nazi. The fact that he doesn't speak German is proof alone of this; you can't be a real Nazi if you don't speak German. I think it's also pretty hard to be a real Nazi if you weren'…

Well, this is an example of the motte and bailey technique. (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Motte_and_bailey)

When most people think of Nazis, they think of concentration camps and mass murder, not totalitarianism. That's the image and idea they want to associate with a group of people when they accuse them of being Nazis, and to argue otherwise would be disingenuous.

For example, you could argue that people who advocate for smoking bans and vegetarianism are Nazis and literally Hitler, as they too tried to reduce the amount of smoking and meat consumption in the name of public health.

Then when they get called on logical inconsistencies (because somebody is against smoking doesn't make them a Nazi) they retreat to a different, more easily defensible assertion.

Also, I don't see xenophobia in any of this discussion. They want rigorously enforced immigration laws, which are already on the books.

The executive branch is in charge of law enforcement, and I don't see how that is xenophobia when you're targeting illegal immigrants, rather than people of a specific ethnic group.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#614

Post by cr0sh »

notabouthacking wrote: post #114
rdl wrote: post #46

The main reason I support Trump is his stance on 2A, and his nominees to SCOTUS (also colored by that issue.) 2A people are highly motivated to turn out to vote and were a major part of his support. (I was at a 4 day shotgun class during the election; there were long debates about the two acceptable candidates on multiple issues -- Johnson vs Trump.)

I've never understood the fear of the left taking away the second amendment. All my coastal elite progressive friends enjoy going to shooting ranges and at worst want thorough background checks and possibly a ban on high capacity magazines. Post-Trump, many progressive people of color are arming themselves out of fear of white nationalists. None of them want a gun ban.

For myself, the only good thing I could think of when Trump won was the idea that maybe finally, we could purchase more .22 ammo at a decent price, without "one-box-per-customer" restrictions or such.

/yeah, I know such restrictions happened mainly because so many "gun-nuts" just couldn't stop buying, fearful that their guns and ammo were going to be taken away by Obama - I've read blogs of such people who perfectly know this to be the case, yet it continued. Gun store owners and manufacturers smile when a liberal is "in charge", because they know sales will go thru the roof - always does.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#615

Post by sedachv »

str33t_punk wrote: post #533
sedachv wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it useless and unhelpful? I am pointing out that people voted for Trump because they lack basic empathy and understanding towards other people's real problems. I like recreational shooting and was an NRA member for two years, enough to develop a serious dislike of 2nd amendment obsessives. Prioritizing your hobby over women's rights is disgusting.

And Conservatives would say the same thing! 'Liberals are prioritizing where people use the bathrooms over the real problem of islamic terrorism . Prioritizing pet issues over national security is disgusting!' Insulting people over whatever issues they decide to find important does nothing but drive them away from the issue you think they should support instead. Empathy and understanding need to be developed -- its l…

> And Conservatives would say the same thing! 'Liberals are prioritizing where people use the bathrooms over the real problem of islamic terrorism . Prioritizing pet issues over national security is disgusting!'

The difference is they would be wrong because violence against LGBT people is much more widespread than Islamic terrorism in the US. Racists and gay-bashers will literally use any issue in place of "Islamic terrorism" to denigrate gay and black rights and it is disgusting and they should absolutely be insulted and marginalized for it.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#616

Post by rabbyte »

mikeash wrote: post #345
dboreham wrote: post #21

Honestly not sure this sheds much light. Doesn't it boil down to: I always vote Republican regardless, sorry. I vote according to my pet wedge issue (usually guns or abortion), sorry. I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that. The alternative candidate wasn't very appealing so I figured why not? I liked the idea of a bomb-thrower, sorry.

"I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that." This one always gets me. We're told, over and over again, that these people are tired of being called whatever-ist and that we should start being nice to them if we want their support. Well, I'm sorry, but if you weren't so freakin' racist, we wouldn't keep pointing it out. If you don't want to be called sexist and ignorant, stop electing people who try to…

It's the "I'm not going to admit to that" part where the left gets it wrong. Pointing out that a person suffers from ignorance, racism, sexism, and bigotry doesn't need to come with the hostility and animosity or risk to their financial well being. These are states of mind that come from lacking context, from having an incomplete model of the world. If a person is punished for their incomplete model of the world they're less likely to make that visible and therefore ignorance is driven to the shadows. If a person received love and guidance when they showed themselves to be ignorant, you would still have the bigotry but at least there would be a pathway out of it.

tl,dr; so long as ignorance is understood to be a dirty word, people will focus on the insult and not the root problem.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#618

Post by mcphage »

spaethnl wrote: post #605
mcphage wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't demonize people for wanting to ask legitimate questions and have legitimate discussions. You also can't claim that merely asking those questions will lead to demonization or ostracism, since we recently freely elected a leader who asks such questions.

Electing Trump doesn't contradict OPs perception. Just because Trump won doesn't mean everyone is surrounded by Trump supporters. In fact, I am pretty left-leaning, as are most of my friends, co-workers, social-circle, and neighborhood.. Trump is not popular in the context of my life. However, I don't agree with all of the left dogma. While I can talk frankly about my criticisms of those topics with close friends, ev…

Knowing people who don't respond well to discussing controversial ideas is irrelevant—I have no idea who you know, so I can't make any claims about what they will or won't allow. But is discussing controversial opinions holding people back? Clearly, the answer is no.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#619

Post by Cookingboy »

freehunter wrote: post #338
Cookingboy wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I"m sorry, if you think it's black and white about abortion then you are as close minded as the worst Trump supporters. Do you think abortion for no reason at all 3 days before birth is the same as abortion within 30 days of pregnancy for the health reason of the mother? Is it black and white or different shades of gray?

There is a black and white defining line that is very commonly used and everyone can accept exists: birth. There is before the moment of birth and there is after the moment of birth. Termination before that date is called abortion, termination after that date is called murder. Very clear defining line. To put it another, slightly less controversial way: do you agree that a 17 year and 11 month old teenager is the sam…

"I would also like to point out that no one has ever had an abortion "for no reason at all" and shame on you for trying to squeeze that one in there."

I grew up in China, people there have abortions ALL THE TIME, sometimes just for reasons like changing mind about having a kid last minute. I didn't think too much about that. But now thinking about it, it does seem messed up to me and no, I'm not squeezing that one into there.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#620

Post by freen »

phkahler wrote: post #471
freen wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "belief" is not based on evidence. Full stop. Name any dead, famous scientist. They upended the scientific conventional wisdom and accepted truth. If you could do that, you'd be in the history books. You can't. It's like arguing with he time cube guy, but not about what he is gonna publish next Tuesday, but the future of the human race in the balance. Do you get now why it is infuriating?

>> Your "belief" is not based on evidence. Mine is actually, it's people like you that are infuriating.

if only saying made it so, I'd have a golden toilet.
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