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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#611

Post by tobltobs »

ausjke wrote: post #473
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

I UPVOTE you, even though I do not expect to discuss political issues at HN and I think HN was not encouraging that either,it somehow has the power to push its own political views such as ACLU to a developer like me. There are so many super-RICH Muslim countries nearby, why don't they take in refugees who share the same ideology first?

Although the UAE is the only country which took refuges, those "super-RICH Muslim countries still took about 25x times" more refuges then the US.

Those not so rich muslim countries took about 100x times more then the US.

> .. share the same ideology first.

What kind of ideology you are talking about? Not brave (trumpist) enough to use the word religion?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#612

Post by giardini »

Why, oh why, has this been posted here? Is there possibly a single institution that serves as more of a lightning rod for anger in the USA, in any political direction, than the ACLU? Would a similar article be posted about the NRA, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, or Southern Poverty Law Center (all which, along with ACLU, do excellent work for their contributors/supporters)?

From the ycombinator Hacker News Guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon." What part of "politics" is this not?

This topic now is yet another gathering point for all unhappy with the election results. Perhaps this forum will allow those discontents to vent to sufficient degree to restore themselves to adulthood and return to their work, home and friends with a more balanced attitude required of a citizen in a republic. But I fear it will simply be another place for them to reinforce their anger and distrust. It's probably a good thing that liberals, in general, avoid firearms, otherwise there might be fighting in the streets already.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#613

Post by a-guest »

xeromal wrote: post #183
monochromatic wrote: post #33

The ACLU sometimes supports a worthy cause, but it's basically just a left-leaning political organization. I understand that's particularly trendy right now, and anyone who supports Trump is a pariah in Silicon Valley... but come on. Would YC be donating directly to the Democratic party if that got the same favorable tax treatment?

The ACLU has defended the rights of neo-nazis and pedophiles. They defend people that no one wants to defend including democrats.

The murder of innocent children in or out of the womb is neither civil nor American; nor is it an expression of liberty in terms of doing what is right. But if the ACLU calls this "liberty", that is terrifying.

"There is a healthy and an unhealthy love of animals: and the nearest definition of the difference is that the unhealthy love of animals is serious. I am quite prepared to love a rhinoceros, with reasonable precautions: he is, doubtless, a delightful father to the young rhinoceroses. But I will not promise not to laugh at a rhinoceros. . . . I will not worship an animal. That is, I will not take an animal quite seriously: and I know why. Wherever there is Animal Worship there is Human Sacrifice. That is, both symbolically and literally, a real truth of historical experience."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/421961/wherever-there-a...

https://www.aclu.org/blog/ag-gag-not-just-about-animal-welfa...

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#614

Post by nowarninglabel »

cptskippy wrote: post #421
CydeWeys wrote: post #11

I don't know exactly what this means, as the implementation details are hazy, but if this entails substantial support to the ACLU (in terms of lawyers, money, or both), then that is awesome. I donated to the ACLU yesterday and I'm encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

I would caution people about how they donate to the ACLU. I made a donation last year and since then have been awash in solicitations for donations from SCLC, Planned Parenthood, Grean Peace, PETA, and other leftist organizations. While I don't object to many of these organizations, I take my privacy very seriously and I wasn't aware when I donated that my personal information would be given/sold out the way it has b…

Yes, I experienced this as well, though it was about 8 years ago. I was really disappointed in the ACLU, I would have thought of all people they would be the last ones to sell off private information. It bothers me that all these groups have spent more money on sending me mail in the ensuing years than the original donation amount to the ACLU.

At least now it seems like they let you opt out.

This is a problem in the non-profit industry that should get addressed, especially given younger generations are less likely to respond to mailers anyways.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#615

Post by Miner49er »

19guid wrote: post #554
joshfraser wrote: post #427

I've been a long time supporter of the ACLU. While they're being politicized right now as being anti-Trump, the thing I admire most about them is their consistency in fighting for the rights of everyone. They stick to their principles of free speech and human equality no matter how unpopular the issue or unsavory their client. A good example is back in the 1930s when the ACLU simultaneously defended the rights of bla…

Unfortunately, the ACLU is not always consistent on the issue of free speech. For example, they have frequently argued in favour of compelling speech from Christian bakers, florists and photographers who, for reasons of conscience, are unwilling to provide their creative services for same-sex weddings. [1] [2] [3] [1] http://aclu-co.org/court-rules-bakery-illegally-discriminate... [2] http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Jus…

The line between free speech and discrimination was drawn long ago. Would you also have people deny service to Black Americans like we did before the Civil Rights movement?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#616

Post by KVFinn »

The ACLU defended a Republican city councilor in my parent's small home town for having his signs taken down by the Democratic mayor. You wouldn't think they'd even notice such a tiny thing, but they were there, and they won.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#617

Post by spaginal »

adrr wrote: post #461
spaginal wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia and Egypt are allies in that region with functioning governments that we don't have emigration issues with and can vet anyone coming over from. Of the 7 nations on the list, Iran has the only functioning government, but is a huge state sponsor of terrorism against our allies in the region and we are not allied with them. To claim this is a bigoted move by Trump because of Islam is a simple and narrow min…

Its known and documented in intelligence reports Saudi government supports terrorists. Here's a quote from one of intelligence reports, "it was well-known in intelligence circles that the Islamic affairs office functioned as the Saudis’ ‘fifth column’ in support of Muslim extremists." 9/11 commission report documented the terrorists meeting with Saudi intelligence officers on US soil and they were partly funded by Sa…

I don't disagree, but the chaos from Trump declaring Saudi Arabia, a current strategic ally in the region both for material resources and military cooperation, would be on a scale that no one here would like to pick up the pieces from.

We deal with a lot of countries around the world that do things we don't like, we don't have to like it, but diplomacy and politics are messy and require compromise in situations where it's a better choice versus the alternative.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#618

Post by qball »

jMyles wrote: post #230
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACLU has been fighting the good fight for impoverished black people as well. They happen to be in the spotlight at the moment due to the Trump immigration executive order, but it's not as though 100% of the funds raised by YC will go towards fighting the immigration ban. It will support their countless other ongoing legal battles as well. They are an unqualified, categorically "good" organization that is deservin…

> They are an unqualified, categorically "good" organization The ACLU is wonderful, no doubt about that. But I think some people do put an asterisk next to the group because of their (obviously somewhat strange) categorization of the protections of the 2nd amendment as outside the scope of American civil liberties.

Sure, but "not doing anything to improve the state of 2A" is not the same as "fighting to impose a degraded view of 2A".

The ACLU has nothing to gain by promoting any particular 2A view, because that's the only right that's not universally a political sinkhole.

The inconvenient truth is that all civil rights (that aren't gun rights) have opposition nearly everywhere in America. The only difference is incidentals- if you're in coastal California or urban New England, your subculture wants "hate speech" banned; whereas Arkansas has a more traditional version of obscenity (depictions of sex and promotion of other vices) it wants to eliminate.

So civil rights (in the traditional sense) has no defenders in legislature or society at large. Gun rights, on the other hand, still do in many areas of the country (coastal California and urban New England are the two big exceptions, of course), and as such I can't fault the ACLU's 'default' stance on a right that's not universally contested.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#619

Post by rmc »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

> Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago?

The tech community/industry thinks that it is a meritocracy, where race (and hence racism) doesn't exist.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#620

Post by kafkaesq »

giardini wrote: post #612

Why, oh why, has this been posted here? Is there possibly a single institution that serves as more of a lightning rod for anger in the USA, in any political direction, than the ACLU? Would a similar article be posted about the NRA, the Simon Wiesenthal Center, or Southern Poverty Law Center (all which, along with ACLU, do excellent work for their contributors/supporters)? From the ycombinator Hacker News Guidelines a…

Why has this been posted here?

Because it relates to the public doings of YC, which are always on-topic (overriding the "no politics per se" rule).

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