Live data from Hacker News

Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

amazonlightsail.com

611–620 of 631 posts

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#611

This is a non-starter without IPv6. I know some of you will be tempted to jump ship from DO and Vultr, but please remember that by doing so you will continue enabling Amazon to hold back progress. While ignoring AWS is not really an option, as it offers some very unique features that are quite useful, this thing does not. DO is not great in this regard as their butcher their allocations, but Vultr gives each VPS a pr…

It's coming (one region now, more to come soon), not sure about Lightsail though.

https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/new-ipv6-support-for-ec2-in...

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd definitely be a gamble, but imagine pitching this idea at Amazon HQ. "We're going to roll out a fantastic new project to allow our customers to spend fewer dollars on our platform!" Not saying Jevon's Paradox wouldn't kick in, but the friction of convincing businesses to work on tools to allow their customers to spend _less_ money is high.

I'm always fascinated when someone mentions a paradox so I looked up "Jevon's Paradox". The real economic term for this is elastic demand (specifically, relatively elastic demand). For example, microprocessor cost reductions make new applications possible, thus demand increased so much that the total amount spent on microprocessors went up for decades. Example of inelastic demand is radial tires. They last four times…

"This statement is not true."

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always fascinated when someone mentions a paradox so I looked up "Jevon's Paradox". The real economic term for this is elastic demand (specifically, relatively elastic demand). For example, microprocessor cost reductions make new applications possible, thus demand increased so much that the total amount spent on microprocessors went up for decades. Example of inelastic demand is radial tires. They last four times…

"This statement is not true."

"This statement is true, not."

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#614
post #429
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a hard technical problem to shut down gracefully. But it's an easy product problem. Just suspend the account. AWS must do this already for some cases. No one running a real business on AWS wants a hard ceiling instead of billing alerts and service by service throttling. Which Amazon has. So, this is just the nuclear option for people's pet projects. It's not a bad thing to have but I wouldn't expect it…

> No one running a real business on AWS wants a hard ceiling instead of billing alerts Are you sure? I'd imagine many startups would rather take a few hours of downtime over billed thousands erroneously. The latter could easily mean the end of the company but the former, when you are just striking out is not the end of the world by far.

My CFO and I run a real business and we'd like this. Especially being able to constrain it by sub/child accounts and/or departments/tags.

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. I can't stand it. It's unlimited liability for anyone that uses their service with no way to limit it. If you were able to set hard caps, you could have set yours at like $5 or even $0 (free tier) and never run into that. One of my services had a Google BigQuery "budget" set at $100. One of our test machines went haywire and continuously submitted a bunch of jobs. The "budget" turned out only to be an alarm, an…

Does this not work as a hard limit for App Engine? [0] It also says here [1] that 'Spending limits are set for paid apps and cannot be exceeded.' [0] https://cloud.google.com/appengine/pricing#spending_limit [1] https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/quotas

I'm not sure because we don't use AppEngine, but these seem like two important caveats:

> Important: Spending limits are not supported in the App Engine flexible environment

> You may still be charged for usage of other Google Cloud Platform resources beyond the spending limit.

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was this awesome bug with AWS a while back too where you could accidentally sign up an account twice Not a bug, this has been amazon's philosophy with accounts on all systems from very early on. Some of the initial designers of amazon knew families where multiple people shared one e-mail address, but wanted separate accounts for shopping. Multiple accounts per e-mail address was a concious design decision for…

A poorly implemented design decision then (which they turned off on AWS back in 2012 due to exactly this happening to many people). https://forums.aws.amazon.com/thread.jspa?threadID=101218 There was no way at the time for me to a) see that I had a second account associated with my email address or b) reset the password for the second account without going through support c) merging the two accounts into one even wit…

Indeed. Multiple accounts per email is the most legacy of legacy features, and it's actually pretty easy to not realize it exists even if you work for Amazon. I'm not surprised internal systems don't handle it well. If I recall right, there was a push to get customers to move off it, using site messaging etc, because it was such a pain to maintain.

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#617
post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All triangles have 3 sides" might be an uninteresting triviality, but "The sum of the squares of the lengths of the catheti is equal to the square of the length of the hypotenuse in a right-angled triangle" is neither trivial nor uninteresting and yet it has a probability of 1.

I love this example the most. It's the exception that proves the rule. If you need to dig this hard to find something interesting with a probability of 1, that's pretty good evidence that the vast majority of interesting statements are not of the true/false variety. Although I don't find it interesting, I am open-minded enough to ... embrace.. the .. uh.. diversity of the world, that allows some people, to find that…

Pythagorean Theorem is "digging hard" and "not interesting"? Mind explaining?

The language that contains all Turing Machines that halt on all inputs is not decidable.

Or

e^(iy) = sin(y) + i * cos(y)

Are those uninteresting trivialities to you?

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#618
post #561
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one running a real business on AWS wants a hard ceiling instead of billing alerts and service by service throttling. Which Amazon has. I know startups that I could bankrupt with a few lines of code and a ~$60 server somewhere long before they'd be able to react to a billing alert if it wasn't for AWS being reasonably good about forgiving unexpected costs. I'm not so sure no one running a "real business" would li…

I meant a business that makes significant revenue and has enough users that downtime or data loss would be unacceptable. If you can't afford downtime you probably can afford to wait for the alert and choose your own mitigation strategy. A system that can't tolerate downtime probably has an on-call rotation and these triggers ought to be reasonably fast. If you can't react or can't afford to react, you probably can af…

> If you can't afford downtime

Only a tiny fraction of businesses can't afford downtime. A lot of businesses claim they can't afford downtime, yet don't insure against it, and don't invest enough in high availability to be able to reasonably claim they've put in a decent effort to avoid it.

In most cases I've seen of businesses that claim they "can't afford downtime", they quickly balk if you present them with estimates of what it'd cost to even bring them to four or five nines of availability.

> A system that can't tolerate downtime probably has an on-call rotation and these triggers ought to be reasonably fast.

A lot of such systems can still run up large enough costs quickly enough that it's a major problem.

> If you can't react or can't afford to react, you probably can afford some downtime / data loss.

I'd say it is the opposite: Those who can afford to react are generally those with deep enough pockets to be able to weather an unexpected large bill best. Those who can't afford to react are often those in the worst position to handle both the unexpected bill and the downtime / data loss. But of the two, the potential magnitude of the loss caused by downtime is often far better bounded than the potential loss from a crazily high bill.

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#619
post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one running a real business on AWS wants a hard ceiling instead of billing alerts and service by service throttling. Which Amazon has. I know startups that I could bankrupt with a few lines of code and a ~$60 server somewhere long before they'd be able to react to a billing alert if it wasn't for AWS being reasonably good about forgiving unexpected costs. I'm not so sure no one running a "real business" would li…

Why don't those startups use something like cloudflare? It would stink to be at the mercy of the good graces of ddos purveyors to not attack.

Consider API's etc.. A lot of businesses have needs where putting CloudFlare in between would be just as likely to block legitimate use. I love CloudFlare, and use it a lot, but it's not a panacea.

Re: Amazon LightSail: Simple Virtual Private Servers on AWS

#620
post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was true for AWS, their prices would be far lower pretty much across the board. One of the most amazing feats Amazon has pulled off is to convince people that AWS is cheap. They're cheap in the way that Apple are: Only if you need a feature-set (or name recognition..) that excludes the vast majority of the competitors from consideration. If/when you truly need that, then they're the right choice. There are pl…

It is cheap compared to setting up and running your own datacenter, S3 replacement, etc. You have to keep in mind that that's where the story started and continues to be, a lot of folks (the ones with $$$) see it as "no cloud vs cloud" not "DigitalOcean vs. Amazon".

(EDIT: To be clear I agree with you that that's the reason people often think that AWS is cheap)

Yes, but that's a false comparison. It's cheaper to rent dedicated servers at any of several dozens large hosting providers than it is to use EC2 or S3, for example. For most people it's cheaper to rent racks and lease servers too (but depending on your location, renting dedicated servers somewhere else might be cheaper - e.g. racks in London are too expensive to compete with renting servers from Hetzner most of the time, for example).

It's extremely rare, and generally requires very specific needs, that AWS comes out cheap enough to even be witting batting range of dedicates solutions when I price out systems.

When clients pick AWS, it's so far never been because it's been cheap, but because they sometimes value the reputation or value the feature set, and that's a perfectly fine reason to pick AWS.

The point isn't that people shouldn't use AWS, but that if people thing AWS is cheap, in my experience it means they usually haven't costed out alternatives.

It's an amazing testament to the brand building and marketing department of Amazon more than anything else.

Post reply on HN