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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whats your point? I wouldn't have to make politically incorrect jokes and references to make myself fit in if there wasn't a fear of offending me and losing their job put there by other women who call foul at the slightest indecency.... And that's the problem,anyone can be offended by anything. while i don't' find the jokes in question personally offensive, there are some things i do that no one could ever guess i wo…

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. My point is that the problem lies somewhere with this weird superstition around women, especially in technology fields. I believe that this weird superstition is perpetuated by sexist ideals or understandings. And I believe that it has nothing to do with you or other women that happen to see it in action like you described, but with the people on the other side. So I guess my point is tha…

> So I guess my point is that shouldn't be your responsibility to make others feel comfortable around you simply because you are a woman.

> is an irrelevant conclusion to take from this event. You don't have to speak for your entire sex by being politically incorrect just to show you're not "one of those" women or that women aren't all the same

Well I said that somewhat tongue in cheek, i don't think its my responsibility to make people feel more comfortable around me because i'm a women, I was mainly commenting on how there is a noticeable difference when people find out i'm not "one of those women" and relax. In fact when it comes down to it its people not being uncomfortable because i'm a women, but because i may be "one of those women" and i can't blame them, if i was, one slip up and they could lose their job. And now it seems even if you slip up in public around one you could too.

I don't try and speak for my gender, or show all women aren't they same, when i show that i am ok with and enjoy 'inappropriate' humor, that's me and who i am. no one is going to think oh gosh all women are like this. When someone does what adira did and acts all righteously thinking they speak for all women it affects us all, and not for the better.

My argument is that anyone can be offended by anything and we have to realize this and behavior accordingly. What i am ok with is going to be differently they what she is ok with. She was bothered by it, ok, but her response was disproportional and out of line yet somehow its defensible because shes female and "did it for the young girls". it does women like me a disservice because now men are going to be even more cautions and uncomfortable around us because the huge risk of possible offending someone like her and it ruining your life. No one should lose their job over a stupid dick joke. period. People need to have tougher skins and not be so easily offended otherwise its going to be a sad sad world we live in.

> portray her as this basketcase who has no control over herself

well I do think she has no control over her self, She got angry and posted a pic on twitter about them and started a vendetta when she should have simply contacted the conference staff, something i would have done if people were actually being out of line and not just making the equivalent of a 13 year old boy's joke to his friend. If that didn't work then it was time to escalate, instead she demonstrated both poor judgement and self control and jumped right into the tweeting.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, ever hear of slippery slope arguments? Because there's clearly a limit to the situation you're describing and clearly offense is relative. So, since you didn't specify any level of severity, let's assume the joke that offended you was about harming someone or themselves. I mean, people say things like "I want to kill the guy the wrote this" or "oh god, this makes me want to kill myself" jokingly. Would it be oka…

Right, you let two guys in private conversation snicker about the word "dongle" and the next thing you know people will be threatening to kill political figures with impunity. I've got one word for that: Lol.

I see how you got here, but that's not what I'm arguing. The parent's post seems to imply that anyone that would react strongly to a joke is a "colossal fucking idiot." This seems to imply that the joke's content has no relation to the reaction. So I was just wondering if that really holds. As per the parent's reply, it does. I'm not even barely implying that threatening to kill political figures is the next logical step. I'm implying that there definitely is some hard limit being ignored or maybe I'm wrong.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#603
post #145

Curious where the guys worked. (Oh, apparently PlayHaven, some mobile game LTV maximization company, like Zynga with even less emphasis on gaming and more on extracting money from idiots. So, no great loss...)

Hey, the guy had a wife and kids. He is just trying to make a living. Come on...

I mean he is likely to find another/better job before the end of the month.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, these might not be "proof", but would she be wrong in saying that? HINT: Look at the assumptions in your post.

I think she'd certainly be wrong. I made the assumption based on her responses to comments on her blog (in which she denies any hint of wrongdoing even when confronted by a polite, rational comment by someone who appears to be a friend/acquaintance of hers), as well as her actions to begin with. I didn't make that assumption because she's a woman.

> I made the assumption based on her responses to comments on her blog

Fair enough.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#605
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, just to be clear, you are boycotting a company that employees someone who upholds the code of conduct agreed to by all attendees of pycon, but make no mention of the company that actually fired the guy. Gotcha.

It's a sane move if you want to discourage the culture that Adria is encouraging. Certainly her employers don't deserve any blame, though.

"We're not choosing your company because we believe in the right for men to tell dick jokes."

I'd quickly e-mail back: "don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

Re: The PyCon Incident

#606

I think all of us would agree that technology has a sexism problem. However , the environment in 2013 and the way, as a whole, it seems that we have gone about countering it is roughly equivalent to napalming six city blocks to get rid of bedbugs in an apartment. (Edit: On reflection, a better analogy would be napalming New York City to eradicate bedbugs. I am aware of the scope of the sexism problem.) This little sa…

Nice to meet a fellow future bait shop owner. I plan to have a mechanical cash register, cash-only. Maybe electric lights.

Would the lights dangle from the ceiling?

Re: The PyCon Incident

#607
post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't an outrage because she spoke up, there's an outrage because she publicly identified and shamed them over something so minor. It should have gone no further then her contacting the event staff and how they resolved it

So, I'm wondering what world you all live in where posting a photograph of someone with no name or identity attached is "publicly shaming" them.

well i could be a smart ass and say a world with face recognition & the internets.

Or just point out that in the photo https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/313417655879102464/...

you can clearly see both their badges (with names) and their are wearing their companies t-shirt. Also she really should have cropped it because the poor man on the left is going to be mistaken for the one of them now.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then what culture is she encouraging? * Calling people out who violate PyCon's code of conduct * Following this up by going to PyCon and getting it resolved Those are the two things she did. Call people out who broke a rule. She also went to PyCon organizers to resolve it. So, what culture is she encouraging, and why would we want to discourage it?

She's encouraging an internet lynch mob, and that's a culture most communities actively discourage.

She @-replied pycon staff. Compare that to the HN and Reddit communities out for Adria's head.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#609
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as i understand it, he did not say to her, he said it top his friend next to him unaware she was sitting there listening to their conversation.

As she described it, he and his friend began their joking in response to her conversation to the man sitting next to them. So they were quite aware that she was there, had every reason to believe that she would be paying attention, and she had cause to believe that she was implicitly addressed. She may have misunderstood the situation, or inaccurately described it. But that was my understanding of the description tha…

the forking joke yea, but that was even more benign, the dongle joke occurred afterwards after i assume some time had passed.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#610
I see a number of people agreeing that this is a major overreaction. Are any of y'all willing to hire (or even interview) the man that got fired? I think that would be the action that would show independent thought on the matter. Until then, I'm not sure what a concord on this action would bring beyond posturing.

I hate to point this out, because I totally agree with the point people are making. If I were in a position to interview the man (and had the need), I'd probably do so.

Anyway, my two cents.

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