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Your phone is about to stop being yours

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Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#601

Post by janalsncm »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

Speaking as someone who has built local-only apps (partially because I don’t want the hassle of maintaining a server):

There are plenty of useful apps that run locally on a phone. You can even run a whole LLM on your phone.

The shiniest and most popular apps are cloud terminals but the iPhone is actually a pretty darn powerful device.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#602

Post by globular-toast »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #583

Someone here on HN used the term "cloud terminal" for modern electronic devices, and I think that is a very fitting name for phones and tablets. They are definitely not computers because they do not actually give the user access to general purpose computing in the sense that the users can control exactly what computations the device is going to execute. They are just terminals whose production costs we cover but whic…

Well, they can do computing, but it's awkward and most people don't use them for that, it's true.

The question of ownership is interesting. If I buy a chair, it doesn't make a very good table, does that mean I don't own it? Most people don't know what general purpose computing is. To them a cloud terminal is a computer. So, to them, they do own their devices because that's all they are.

I feel like some of us think we got close, or anywhere near, what Stallman has been advocating for most of his life. But I'm afraid we didn't. We all chose convenience. We chose to believe that one man was enough to hold back the tide against enormously powerful corporations and governments. Some even turned their back on Stallman. And some even work for the enemy.

We haven't really lost anything here. It's just becoming more clear what we actually have.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#603

Post by xquce »

svat wrote: post #283
pngwen wrote: post #68

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch. You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that ju…

Here is a table I just made (edit: changed to list as HN wraps code blocks now), of iOS vs Android (now) vs Android (after Sep 2026 or 2027 or whenever these announced changes take effect): •1. Where most users can install software from: ↠↠ iOS: official store (App Store) + (in EU) other stores ↠↠ Android (now): official store (Play Store), other stores (e.g. F-Droid), arbitrary APKs ↠↠ Android (after changes): offic…

Comment about point 2: As a CEO who recently tried to make personal Android and iOS Dev accounts for my hobby apps on my +20 year old Google and Apple accounts, let me just say that the processes are alot more complicated to apply than is pointed out here.

The key difference being that when I needed help I called Apple Support who transfered me once to their EU Developer support who, while I talked to him, setup and approved my Dev account. While my Google account still is in pending limbo with their new verification system with no support to contact... I have since giving up getting access after multiple tries.

So Google changes do hit alot harder than the summery makes it seem.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#604

Post by soco »

virgildotcodes wrote: post #575
hellojesus wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen new data from celbrite in awhile, but I believe that grapheneos was the only truly secure phone from it for both bfu and afu as of a couple years ago. Apple lost my confidence after they removed Advanced Device Encryption for British users (plus implemented age verification for them). https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14344-cellebrite-premium-ju...

I think it's been said that nobody has yet cracked Apple's Lockdown Mode, but that's likely not truly comparable?

How is then law enforcement getting what they need from people's iphones? Because I understand they do, in some way. And I'm not asking about forcing people to hand over pin or fingerprints, but just by themselves.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#606

Post by poolnoodle »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #412
fainpul wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year . I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

Yeah but where you were losing a lot, you're now losing only a little bit. And on the other side, the benefits of using iOS over Android spyware outweighs the cons now.

You really think Apple doesn't gather data on what you do on your devices? This notion that Android == spyware is so old and boring but HN just loves Apple.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#607

Post by mulmen »

kube-system wrote: post #169
mulmen wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define malware.

The scams this directly targets are well known and common. Someone gets a phishing message, they have someone install some sort of malware on the device, then their bank accounts are drained into some offshore account never to be seen again. That's why there's a requirement for restarting the phone and waiting 24 hours. The restart ends the connection for any remote-access software or phone call that might be driving…

Malware is whatever Google says it is.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#609

Post by fc417fc802 »

criddell wrote: post #139
rcxdude wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The openness of Android also acts as a check of sorts on how restrictive the walled garden can get. If google were to clamp down on useful functionality in the play store, then you could always install apks yourself. But if the latter is no longer an option, then there's much more temptation to google for the former.

I get the feeling that clamping down on useful functionality is often an unfortunate side-effect of closing down paths that are being exploited by criminals to harm users. What should Google do when a change they are making to protect regular less-technical users breaks functionality needed by more advanced users?

I reject your premise. I do not believe that the primary motivation here is to protect less technical users. However even were I to accept that, I would say the change is an unacceptable one thus they should either figure something else out or do nothing.

Re: Your phone is about to stop being yours

#610

Post by fsflover »

soco wrote: post #604
virgildotcodes wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's been said that nobody has yet cracked Apple's Lockdown Mode, but that's likely not truly comparable?

How is then law enforcement getting what they need from people's iphones? Because I understand they do, in some way. And I'm not asking about forcing people to hand over pin or fingerprints, but just by themselves.

Here is one example how: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47716490
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