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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#601

Post by AntiUSAbah »

sigmoid10 wrote: post #332
chvid wrote: post #322

The incredible arrogance and hybris of the American initiated tech war - it is just a beautiful thing to see it slowly fall apart. The US-China contest aside - it is in the application layer llms will show their value. There the field, with llm commoditization and no clear monopolies, is wide open. There was a point in time where it looked like llms would the domain of a single well guarded monopoly - that would have…

Still not sure how I feel about China of all places to control the only alternative AI stack, but I guess it's better than leaving everything to the US alone. If China ever feels emboldened enough to go for Taiwan and the US descends into complete chaos, the rest of the world running on AI will be at the mercy of authoritarian regimes. At the very least you can be sure noone is in this for the good of the people anym…

Come on... I was hoping that Mistral would do something and man that would be great as european but I hear NOTHING from them ever.

I don't know what the problem is. Are we europeans to stupid? Do we just not have enough money / VC money? Are we not proud enough?

:(

Re: DeepSeek v4

#602

Post by XCSme »

nl wrote: post #444
yanis_t wrote: post #60

Already on Openrouter. Pro version is $1.74/m/input, $3.48/m/output, while flash $0.14/m/input, 0.28/m/output.

The Pro model is giving 429 Overload errors

Yup, can't really be used in production atm.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#603

Post by SecretDreams »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #558
dalemhurley wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically yes. It is entirely possible to poison the training data for a supply chain attack against vibe coders. The trick would be to make it extremely specific for a high value target so it is not picked up by a wide range of people. You could also target a specific open source project that is used by another widely used product. However there is so many factors involved beyond your control that it would not b…

I believe this is possible but unlikely. I don't think a Chinese company trying to break down the US's stronghold in this field would do this short term. I think it is in their best interest to be cheaper, better, easier, and more trust worthy until competition looks silly. It's like suggesting BYD has a high likelihood of making their cars into weapons or something. It's not in the company or their countries interes…

Need the "why not both?" meme here.

BYD and Tesla have the same ability to brick their cars anywhere. It's less a "weapon" and more a way to cripple a subset of people overnight if they so choose. A general major downside of "connected" products.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#604

Post by louiereederson »

raincole wrote: post #221
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

Insert always has been meme. But seriously, it just stems from the fact some people want AI to go away. If you set your conclusion first, you can very easily derive any premise. AI must go away -> AI must be a bad business -> AI must be losing money.

It is possible to question the sustainability of the AI buildout and not have a dogmatic position on AI development.

There are still major unanswered questions here. For instance, all of the incremental data capacity build out is going to businesses that have totally unknown LT unit economics and that today are burning obscene amounts of cash.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#606

Post by randomgermanguy »

Palmik wrote: post #525
Bombthecat wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In six month deepseek won't be sota anymore und usage will be wayyyy down.

Or there will be DSv4.1/2/3 ;)

Definitely something in this realm, they call the models "preview" at a bunch of different points in the paper.

What im really hoping is for a double-punch like with V3 -> R1

Re: DeepSeek v4

#607

Post by deaux »

hunter67 wrote: post #357
raincole wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Our (western) economic model forces competing individual companies to be profitable quickly. China can ignore DeepSeek losing money, because they know developing DeepSeek will help China. Not every institution needs to be profitable.

Ah yes, the Western economic model forcing individual American companies like Amazon , Youtube and Uber to become profitable after.. checks notes _14 years_ for Uber, 9 years for Amazon, many years for Youtube.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#608

Post by spaceman_2020 »

wallst07 wrote: post #557
spaceman_2020 wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait for Taiwan to peacefully reunify with the mainland so the west with its constant war waging won't even have this talking point

Are you Taiwanese? If not, your statement is a slap in the face to those citizens.

Almost 40% of them voted for a party whose leader was just in Beijing to talk about reconcilliation

Re: DeepSeek v4

#609

Post by kroaton »

dizhn wrote: post #540

I like deepseek. It works very well. I haven't tried v4 yet but on their web chat interface, just typing "Taiwan" causes it to give you a lecture about how Taiwan is part of China. :)

Ask western models about Israel's genocides and mass rapes in Palestine, Lebanon, etc.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#610

Post by chrsw »

ifwinterco wrote: post #278
jari_mustonen wrote: post #239

Open Source as it gets in this space, top notch developer documentation, and prices insanely low, while delivering frontier model capabilities. So basically, this is from hackers to hackers. Loving it! Also, note that there's zero CUDA dependency. It runs entirely on Huawei chips. In other words, Chinese ecosystem has delivered a complete AI stack. Like it or not, that's a big news. But what's there not to like when…

As a Brit I'm here for it to be honest, I'm tired of America with everything that's going on. China is not perfect but a bit of competition is healthy and needed

I'm American. If the choice is between the current US direction or China, then no, I don't think the word "healthy" should be anywhere near this discussion.
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