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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#601

Post by opan »

major505 wrote: post #591

As I saw it, there are 4 things that lock people in the windows platform today. - Gaming: a problem being tackled by Valve mainly, and I getting better day by day; - Printing Services: a lot of manufacturers, specially of high end business printers only work on windows. - Photoshop: I think many of these will eventually just fully migrate to mac. - Excel: the rest of microsoft office is used because its in the packag…

>Tons of small and big business runs on Excel, and there's simply no alternative in the market for it, with 100% compatibility. And considering the ammount of stuff running on obscure excel formulas, and excel macros, it will take a lot of time before one arrives.

I was thinking about this compatibility problem the other day. Usually someone moving between office suites (MSFT Office, Google Drive, LibreOffice) complains stuff broke, then they give up / drop it / work around it. I was imagining an ideal path would be to document these cases of incompatibility as bugs/issues in LibreOffice. Describe the difference and how it should work, then LibreOffice fixes their software to better match. I don't know if this already happens. Personally I avoid all office software like the plague and try to work with plain text files and vim. I just hear about these issues enough that I'm mildly invested in the situation by now.

I tried to tell a friend about WYGIWYM stuff like LaTeX, groff, and Typst the other day. He seemed more interested in "figuring out" why stuff broke when changing between office software. I tried to tell him that MSFT doesn't follow their own spec and everyone else has to reverse engineer it, resulting in implementation differences. Plus MSFT's own implementation being proprietary so it can't be easily copied. I'm not sure the weight of the situation got across to him.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#602

Post by observationist »

nicoburns wrote: post #380
Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

> I think the only way this gets better for consumers is if customer response more often insisted further roll backs than just the last straw if a company crosses the line. I think consumers have little power here. Our economic system fundamentally chooses to reward such behaviour. Until we change that, the power will always be with these kind of companies. Perhaps governments could levy punative fines in such situat…

I'd love if everyone switched to Linux and the walled gardens just died, but the most realistic outcome would be Microsoft and Apple having to up their game and improve their respective products. Right now they're driving hellbent for leather into OSaaS monthly computer subscriptions, eliminating use agency to the greatest degree possible, and exploiting every possible intrusion and usurpation of consumer privacy, vacuuming up every last bit of data and monetizing it to the greatest degree possible, without any concurrent return in value to the consumer.

The only way that stops is by having enough people leave that they change their behavior, and it's not sufficient to switch to the competition that is operating under the same perverted incentives under the same system with the same failure modes. No Windows, no Mac, no Chromebooks, no enshittified corporate quagmire of awfulness and despair.

The solution is simple - use Linux. Set your family up with Linux.

It's the year of the Linux desktop; it's never been easier or better, and it's never been more important to make the leap.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#603

Post by selectively »

xfz wrote: post #533
selectively wrote: post #244

Domestic violence analogies for computing....really gross. I wouldn't hire or work with 'Sam Bent'.

Completely agree, we can be edgy without being insensitive.

Or, even better: let's not be edgy, because we are not tweens circa 2002.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#604

Post by autoexec »

charcircuit wrote: post #530
autoexec wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes companies will make more money by refusing to give consumers what they want. Collusion is also extremely profitable. A competitor that isn't interested in playing along can be bought out, but once shareholders get involved they're going to insist on screwing over their customers just like everyone else does anyway because they'd be leaving a huge pile of cash on the table otherwise and short term profits ar…

"by refusing to give consumers what they want." in practice consumers don't really want that, that much. The companies do similar things due to the similar ways consumers react to them. That's the point of this rely chain.

There are lots of things consumers want. They'd love a cell phone that didn't spy on them, they want a smart TV that isn't full of ads, they want an ink jet printer that doesn't refuse to print when there's still ink available. These aren't huge asks but because subjecting customers to them make companies money it's difficult, if not impossible to avoid.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#605

Post by afandian »

JollySharp0 wrote: post #583
afandian wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are all kinds of language registers for communication. From formal business speak to 'locker room banter'. What is appropriate or otherwise depends entirely on the participants of the conversation. So, it depends on what kind of conversation we're trying to have. I think this post's usage is meant deliberately to be a bit edgy, to illustrate how badly Microsoft has behaved. An encouragement to be mindful of lan…

> An encouragement to be mindful of language, and therefore discuss what shared context we're trying to build, shouldn't be so controversial in a self-professed 'thoughtful' [0] forum. I think you guys complaining about provocative title and not not the substance of what is said, is what people are taking issue with. If I didn't know better, I would honestly think it is concern trolling. > I think it's a bit distaste…

I hope you can take on trust that this is a genuine, exploration of the original point about language. And FTR I have a very low opinion of MS and have had since the late 90s.

There are usually all kinds of twists and turns in a HN discussion. And it's not like we're discussing the background colour or something far off-topic, the title is a pretty noticeable part of the article. I don't think it should be verboten to discuss these things.

I agree that transgressive speech is an important tool, and tone policing is generally bad news.

To each their own.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#606

Post by Tempest1981 »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #584

While I have many grievances with Windows 11, I am particularly upset about the taskbar. Back in Windows 10, I used a double-height taskbar positioned at the bottom of the screen. I forget the name of the specific setting, but all windows would appear as their own item, and, the taskbar would ensure that all items retained the same width. The taskbar in Windows 11 is a downgrade in every conceivable way. I can look p…

Yes, it seems like UI designers only solve the basic use case: beginner user with 3 apps open on a 14" laptop, each full screen, or tiled side-by-side.

I imagine them presenting their design on a static PowerPoint slide, and upper-management says "beautiful", and they move on to CoPilot features, never looking back.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#607

Post by Eisenstein »

j_w wrote: post #550
nicoburns wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there's a power disparity here. I think the clearest example is smart TVs where there have been examples of consumers buying a TV, and then having ads retroactively added to the product a year later. There's not much a consumer could to avoid that. It's our regulatory environment allowing that.

You don't need a TV. If there are only smart TVs then simply don't purchase one. Most consumers are unwilling to take an option that they perceive as inconveniencing them more than getting screwed by the company inconveniences them.

Please make a list of things you don't need so that in case of any issues with the company or system that allows access to them you will know to just stop using them.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#608

Post by admax88qqq »

oybng wrote: post #540
admax88qqq wrote: post #477

This follows the standard windows pattern of every release alternating between bad/good. 98 good ME bad XP good Vista bad 7 good 8 bad 10 good 11 bad When 12 comes windows will be tolerable again.

Really highlights the plummet in quality and massive shift in user tolerance that w10 is considered "good" now

The conspiracy version of this is each bad windows release is purposefully extra bad so the next "good" version is perceived as artifically well.

It's a shame too, I feel like the underlying OS has some really good engineering in it, but the layers of cruft and anti-features on top make for a poor overall product.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#609

Post by hiciu »

tombert wrote: post #595
major505 wrote: post #591

As I saw it, there are 4 things that lock people in the windows platform today. - Gaming: a problem being tackled by Valve mainly, and I getting better day by day; - Printing Services: a lot of manufacturers, specially of high end business printers only work on windows. - Photoshop: I think many of these will eventually just fully migrate to mac. - Excel: the rest of microsoft office is used because its in the packag…

Excel is the biggest blocker for my dad, and why I keep losing the argument to get my parents to move to Linux or Mac. Pretty much all their other stuff is stuff that either works fine on Linux or is just in the browser anyway, but the only thing that I don't really have a rebuttal to is when my dad points out that he uses the full-fat excel and a lot of the more modern features. I would so rather they move to Linux,…

> just put Excel inside Winboat or something, but they won't have it

Just curious, is it about different tools / workflow / the new thing to learn (and those are valid reasons!) or are there some technical issues with for example Winboat?

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#610

Post by kivle »

Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

I've noticed recently that my Windows 11 start menu isn't a 50% gray empty blob anymore. I always disable "recommended apps" (eg. ad supported app suggestions), so 50% of the space in my start menu was unused, yet it was still there of course. Kind of refreshing to have a somewhat normal looking start menu again with something as revolutionary as a list of apps right when you open it. Let's see how long it takes before they mess it up again.
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