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Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

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Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#601

Post by pauldelany »

satvikpendem wrote: post #30

Cantor Fitzgerald, formerly led by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and is now run by his son, went to various companies that were affected by tariffs and bought the rights to their potential tariff refunds for 20% of the value on the expectation that it'd be struck down by the courts. Now they stand to make huge returns of 3 to 5x for being correct on that bet, while, of course, consumers get nothing. Now if this i…

Howard Lutnick was an architect and promoter of Trump's tariff strategy. He was involved in setting it up. 'Set up' being the operative verbiage.

https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/howard-lutnick-criticis...

https://businessplus.ie/news/howard-lutnick-donald-trumps-tr...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/2026/01/30/how-a...

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#602

Post by pauldelany »

caconym_ wrote: post #461
syllogism wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The corruptions of this administration are legion, but this isn't one of them. Unless you can point to something Lutnick did to create this outcome, I don't see how he had a better view of the whole thing than anyone else.

Isn't Lutnick literally the chief architect of Trump's tariff policy? I can hardly imagine anybody more responsible for creating this outcome besides Trump himself, who would presumably have appointed somebody else if Lutnick hadn't been available. > I don't see how he had a better view of the whole thing than anyone else. Given the above, you really don't think Lutnick had a "better view" of the likely outcomes and…

Yes, he is:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/2026/01/30/how-a...

https://businessplus.ie/news/howard-lutnick-donald-trumps-tr...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/howard-lutnick-trump-tariffs-s...

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#603

Post by toast0 »

magicalhippo wrote: post #66
mothballed wrote: post #4

... refunded to the importer of record. Not the people the costs were passed to. Essentially turning it retroactively into a tax to private businesses. This is the worst case of all scenarios for the consumer.

> refunded to the importer of record. Not the people the costs were passed to I mean the importers were the ones who paid the duties. It's not a given they passed it on, and if it was then in many cases it was spread out. That is importer paid for one container of items, which in turn got sold to individuals which the government has no record of. If you ordered delivery by say FedEx and they paid the duty and passed…

> If you ordered delivery by say FedEx and they paid the duty and passed it on to you, you should have a reasonable case to get it refunded from FedEx when they get the money back. Ideally they handle it automatically since they have all the necessary details.

I didn't have to deal with it, but from other comments, most of the international shippers also charged a hefty fee to broker the tarrifs. Expect not to get that refunded.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#604

Post by tsoukase »

satvikpendem wrote: post #30

Cantor Fitzgerald, formerly led by Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick and is now run by his son, went to various companies that were affected by tariffs and bought the rights to their potential tariff refunds for 20% of the value on the expectation that it'd be struck down by the courts. Now they stand to make huge returns of 3 to 5x for being correct on that bet, while, of course, consumers get nothing. Now if this i…

As coming from a semi-corrupt country I can assure you that the Commerce Secretary can have massive access to classified information from any part of the public sector, including any Court. For him all this is one to two telephone calls away. The question is if he has influence in the decisions, which elevates the corruption to the next level.

For the nonbelievers: why did only a company led by close relatives of a government member and no other bet on a game that is based on a Court decision?

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#605

Post by tzs »

jonathanlydall wrote: post #434
trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

Maybe I don't understand as I'm an outsider, but as per my recent comment on this topic [0], I fail to see the logic of how "other countries" pay the US when the tariffs are paid by the importer and not the other country which is exporting. I do acknowledge that import taxes can in theory help local industries, especially if the other countries are subsidizing exported goods. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id…

The importer pays directly. There are three ways the importer can deal with the burden of that. In most cases it will be a combination of all three of them.

1. Raise the price they sell the imported item for.

2. Eat it.

3. Lower the price they are willing to pay the exporter.

For the Trump tariffs it has been overall it has been about 90-96% #1 and #2 and 4-10% #3. I haven't seen a breakdown of how #1 and #2 is split.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#606

Post by tzs »

jlarocco wrote: post #358
Jeremy1026 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably Hah, we are 100% not getting our money back. And the higher, tariff level, prices aren't going to go back down either.

Yeah, most of us absolutely are not getting our money back. The importers pay the tariffs, and they might get a refund, but it's unlikely they can distribute the money back to the people who they passed the price increase onto. Imagine I imported 1 ton of rice and paid the tariff. Then I split that ton of rice into 2000 one pound bags and sold them to two super markets, with a higher price accounting for the tariff.…

If you wanted to pass the refund on wouldn't the most sensible way be to pass it on to the two supermarkets since they were the actual buyers from you?

If the supermarket that raised prices wants to pass that on to their 1000 buyers that would be for them to deal with, not you.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#607

Post by dashundchen »

loudmax wrote: post #378
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. It's not insider trading. Lutnick didn't have inside information. His son just had a brain. Anyone who read the case knew which way the court was going, it was the least surprising decision ever. Perhaps the only surprising thing is that the court ever heard it.

The mental gymnastics people are performing in order to convince themselves that this isn't the most corrupt administration the US has seen in modern history is staggering. If a fraction of the level of skepticism these people applied to Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton were applied to Trump and his cronies, they'd be demanding impeachment.

Seriously. These monarchists in this thread contort themselves in every which way to make sure their dear leader is always in the clear.

Shall we forget the shitcoin rugpull Trump has used to launder billions from foreign leaders?

The transparent bribes he's taken to his political org that have resulted in pardons for smuggler, drug lords and murderers?

The $200 million dollar contract Kristi Noem funneled to a company an operative of her for "marketing", formed days before the contract was awarded?

The secretary of labor using funds to throw herself a lavish birthday party and travel around the country?

Kash Patel flying himself and his girlfriend around on an FBI jet with an expensive security detail so they can party?

The fact that insiders are openly insider trading in crypto, the stock market, and these betting markets (both the illegal Venezuela and Iran invasions had huge extremely suspicious bets right before actions were taken).

This barely scratched the surface of this term alone. These fascists are so transparently corrupt.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#608

Post by outside2344 »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

The dude is a moron: to think there was any thought behind this is to be insane.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#609

Post by [deleted] »

kgwxd wrote: post #586
bluegatty wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are not that smart. Even if the tariffs are not a lot, they are potent negotiating leverage. They def knew they were lying about much they were collecting They def knew they were lying about who is paying They lied to the public about that and got a bit of extra creme in the bag but the effect was mostly leverage, which 'kind of worked'. They could have very effectively used illegal tariffs to actually do 90…

You really think Trump is orchestrating any of this? He reads the script he's given.

[deleted]

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#610

Post by hunterpayne »

functionmouse wrote: post #408
MattDamonSpace wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is “$130B is chump change for the problems caused” and that’s true if companies as well

Companies will make far more than 130b off this. There's no way they only raised prices just enough to cover the 130b and the labor required for the internal policy changes. This was a justification for price gouging. Which they will not stop doing.

Agreed, this is the real take away most people will be left with. Not only did we all pay higher prices, instead of using that money to pay off the debt we give it away to business managers who were never out that money in the first place. Politically, that doesn't accomplish what some think it does. Midterms are coming up in 8 months...and the results of the house are going to be drastic no matter which side wins. Either Trump can do what he wants or the government will be deadlocked and nothing will happen for 2 years. Neither seem like good outcomes.
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