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We Will Not Be Divided

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Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#601

Post by fauigerzigerk »

skissane wrote: post #521
arw0n wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a massive misunderstanding here - I'm not sure on whose side. In my understanding, if the DoD orders an autonomous drone, it would probably write in the ITT that the drone needs to be capable of doing autonomous surveillance. If Lockheed uses Anthropic under the hood, it does not meet those criteria, and cannot reasonably join the bid? What the declaration of supply chain risk does though is, that n…

> Who in their right minds wants to have the military have the capabilities to do mass surveillance of their own citizens? Who in their right minds wants to have the US military have the capability to carry out an unprovoked first strike on Moscow, thereby triggering WW3, bringing about nuclear armageddon? And yet, do contracts for nuclear-armed missiles (Boeing for the current LGM-30 Minuteman ICBMs, Northrop Grumma…

Anthropic doesn't object to fully autonomous AI use by the military in principle. What they're saying is that their current models are not fit for that purpose.

That's not the same thing as delivering a weapon that has a certain capability but then put policy restrictions on its use, which is what your comparison suggests.

The key question here is who gets to decide whether or not a particular version of a model is safe enough for use in fully autonomous weapons. Anthropic wants a veto on this and the government doesn't want to grant them that veto.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#602

Post by syllogism »

timr wrote: post #165
thimabi wrote: post #68

The problem with forcing public policy on companies is that companies are ultimately made from individuals, and surely you can’t force public policy down people’s throats. I’m sure nothing good can come out of strong-arming some of the brightest scientists and engineers the U.S. has. Such a waste of talent trying to make them bend over to the government’s wishes… instead of actually fostering innovation in the very c…

I don't see how public policy is being "forced" on anyone here? It seems like the system is working as intended: government wants to do X; company A says "I won't allow my product to be used for X"; government refuses to do business with company A. One side thinks the government should be allowed to dictate terms to a private supplier, the other side thinks the private supplier should be allowed to dictate terms to t…

They're labelling Anthropic a supply chain risk, without even the pretense that this is in fact true. They're perfectly content to use the tool _themselves_, but they claim that an unwillingness to sign whatever ToS DoW asks marks the company a traitor that should be blacklisted from the economy.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#603

Post by Boxxed »

goku12 wrote: post #564
pineaux wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its called corporatism and is a part of classical fascism.

I don't see a good reason to downvote you, though that's a pattern here these days. But I do have a question about your statement. This move certainly has the hallmarks of fascism. But how is it corporatism when it's the elected government that's trying to punish a corporation? Granted that this regime is deep in the pockets of the corporations and billionaires. But it looks like they would have spared Anthropic if t…

> But it looks like they would have spared Anthropic if they capitulated to the regime's demands and bent their back over.

Yeah dude, that's the point.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#605

Post by jachee »

agmater wrote: post #599
jachee wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s 5am on a Saturday. What millions of actions do you suggest, O just-as-wordy-yet-holier-than-thou HN commentor?

https://commonslibrary.org/198-methods-of-nonviolent-action/ here's some to get you started

The first 17 of those are all variations on “make words”. :P

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#606

Post by MzxgckZtNqX5i »

goku12 wrote: post #564
pineaux wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its called corporatism and is a part of classical fascism.

I don't see a good reason to downvote you, though that's a pattern here these days. But I do have a question about your statement. This move certainly has the hallmarks of fascism. But how is it corporatism when it's the elected government that's trying to punish a corporation? Granted that this regime is deep in the pockets of the corporations and billionaires. But it looks like they would have spared Anthropic if t…

I'm not sure I fully understood your point, but about the question "how fascism if elected?": the Nazi Party won (i.e., it was the most voted party) in multiple elections in the late 20s/early 30s.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#607

Post by pjc50 »

oefrha wrote: post #582
khalic wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the passivity of the US population will be remembered for generations. Of course it's the people talking about freedom the most that do the least, as usual, big mouths are antithetical to actions.

I was checking Trump approval ratings yesterday. I didn’t have high hopes but I thought it had to be under 35% at this point (I think in a sane country it has to be 40% approval or ever so slightly below 40%. To me that’s definitive confirmation that “it’s on Trump and his cronies, not the American people” is nonsense. It’s on at least 40% of American people. They weren’t blindsided by false promises, they want this.

Exactly. The Trump Show is primarily a media production. Bombing Iranians is a special effect that happens to get people killed. Dead Iranians won't be on camera. The media backers, Fox and now CBS and Paramount (the Weiss empire), will support this and make sure the American people like the war. Americans enjoy their propaganda, it tells them they're the white heroes.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#610

Post by jspdown »

Domestic mass surveillance might feel tolerable when you live in the country conducting it. But how would you feel about other countries adopting similar policies, and thereby mass-surveilling the American people? Because that's exactly what these policies authorize when applied to the rest of the world.
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