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The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

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Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#601

Post by Izikiel43 »

prh8 wrote: post #515
mattmaroon wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.) Hysterical people think they are being rational…

Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. They have murdered people in broad daylight and allowing many more to suffer and even die in their facilities. People are not being hysterical, and the people who are downplaying or ignoring this are showing that they are in fact evil.

> Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes.

A source would be nice

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#602

Post by kadabra9 »

prh8 wrote: post #515
mattmaroon wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really not. Define taken away. They’ve absolutely detained some citizens, then let them go. And again, not defending what they are doing, they are awful,but you are probably more likely to be hit by lightning than you are to have any of your family planning go wrong because of them if you are a full citizen. (If you are undocumented here right now, yeah, totally.) Hysterical people think they are being rational…

Their own data reports that they are holding tens of thousands of citizens who have committed no crimes. They have murdered people in broad daylight and allowing many more to suffer and even die in their facilities. People are not being hysterical, and the people who are downplaying or ignoring this are showing that they are in fact evil.

Tens of thousands of "citizens" or "residents"?

There's an important distinction here.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#603

Post by whatever1 »

jpadkins wrote: post #535
bittercynic wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a man who's never wanted kids, and is now getting to an age where it probably wouldn't be a good idea, those weren't really the big factors for me. Having a kid is just an unfathomably large commitment. If you bring a kid into the world, I believe you're responsible for creating the conditions where that kid can grow into a healthy, well adjusted adult, and that's seemed like an increasingly impossible commitment…

It's not that hard. Sorry you missed out on a wonderful thing. You are not responsible for the world or its conditions. You just have to support the kid and be a good role model, that is 95% of the job.

Is bringing a kid into slavery or a warzone ethical?

To enjoy this life you need free will aka be provided with options.

So there is definitely a lower bound of conditions that a parent should be able to satisfy.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#604

Post by lostlogin »

rayiner wrote: post #546
tshaddox wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some might say this is selfish, but on the other hand it’s kind of weird to expect anybody to commit to that for the sake of some other party, whether that be society, the government, peers, or parents, particularly when none of them are doing anything of substance to help mitigate those impacts in exchange. Nah, I think that it is just selfish, and that it’s the least weird thing in the world to expect people to c…

"Selfish" is exactly the word my dad uses. But then again we're third worlders and the idea of not having grandchildren is literally horrifying.

> the idea of not having grandchildren is literally horrifying.

Why?

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#605

Post by pelzatessa »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #522

If we need more young people in our society in the USA, this is actually the easiest problem to solve -- just open up immigration. As long as lots of people still want to come here (not guaranteed to last forever), not having enough people is a problem only of our own making. If only most of our problems were so easy to solve.

It's only a short term solution, as all countries around the world (even those third-world ones, with current fertility rate above 4.0) are experiencing lower birthrates every year. See the movie birthgap

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#606

Post by didgetmaster »

Balgair wrote: post #207

I like to hang out on fertility twitter. It's a strange place. Since the fertility problem is worldwide, you get a lot of ideologies mixing about. There's hardcore CCP folks, free market Mormons, radical Imams, universalist preachers, the whole lot of them. They're all trying to share ideas and jumping on the latest research findings from reputable and crackpot sources. They're all looking for the recipe to get peopl…

Every major life choice (career, marriage, buying a house, moving to a new city/state, etc.), comes with a set of pros and cons. Having children is no different. No matter which choices you make in life, you will always wonder if the other choice might have been better.

Raising a family is hard, but also has many rewards. I have 4 children (now grown) and never regretted it, but I try not to judge others who have made other choices.

You should not have children for your own benefit. Those who expect children to take care of them in their old age, might be disappointed. If you are expecting to get out of them more than you are willing to put into them, you are doing it wrong.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#607

Post by zem »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #48

The primary cause of low birth rates is that society does not value children. Sure we talk a big game, everything is 'for the children' obviously. However, we publicly divest from schools, we invest in technologies that devalue humans and human labor. Growing up we make people believe they need to be millionaires just to not be swallowed up by the 9-to-5 meat grinder (this is true actually). It's no wonder young peop…

and also there is the deeply ingrained attitude that your kids are your problem. there is very little help from the government to offset the negative effects and opportunity costs of having and raising children.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#608

Post by patrickk »

echelon wrote: post #510
WhompingWindows wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not alone, Kraig911. It's very hard to be a parent in modern society. My wife and I's friends have basically vanished from our lives, they have zero initiative or interest in coming over to see the kids or help in any way. They say they do, but they rely on us to take the initiative and make social things happen. After dozens of rejections or silence from dozens of them, it's rejection fatigue with the friends…

It's not that being a parent is harder - it's actually easier (excluding the post-WWII American boom years which were a fluke). It's that the floor of being single has risen to stratospheric highs. Being single used to be: boring (no internet, tv, constant dopamine drip. Having kids was an escape from mundane boredom.) Being single used to be: lonely (now we have dating and hookup apps, online games, tons of in-perso…

> Being a woman used to be: limited choice (now we fortunately have tons of options for women - careers, etc. They can enjoy the same freedoms, fun, and personal investment as men.)

This is the real reason that birth rates are dropping. Women’s prime childbearing years are spent working in an office (usually through economic necessity), and the decision to have kids becomes “oh we’ll get to that later”. Once the switch flipped to DINKY (double income, no kids) being the norm, house prices inflated and that’s where you have to be as a couple to keep up.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#609

Post by dv_dt »

mamonster wrote: post #138
dv_dt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is this is Spain's second wave of doing this, and the economic studies on the first wave of it showed visibly positive results. Spain's economy moved in growth, and with a size larger than many other European nations in similar background conditions of flat to negative population growth, but tighter immigration allowances.

Horrible fiscal ticking time bomb that ignores the fact that regularization means naturalization over the next 10-15 years and so access to EU healthcare system. The biggest drag on government budgets in EU are socialized healthcare and retirement costs. At this point we know healthcare costs are severely backloaded, with most spending coming out of the last 10 years of someone's life. Regularizing now allows them to…

The latter half of careers, and certainly 30-55 is generally the period of highest productivity of working careers. Its even higher value for the economy when wages do a catch up slowly over their time. I think it is politiczed fear mongering to suggest that the economic balance is negative in that kind of exchange.

Re: The US is flirting with its first-ever population decline

#610

Post by Balgair »

jedberg wrote: post #287
Hizonner wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since the fertility problem is worldwide Slowed population growth, or even population shrinkage, is worldwide. The fertility "problem" is only inside some people's heads.

Not entirely. Sperm counts in young men have been falling for decades. No one is sure why.

https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/declining-sperm-count-much-...

Per the above, it seems that the change in spermcount worldwide seems to be flat.

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