Practically speaking, could I fly inside the U.S. without an ID? Just ask for the manual pat down? I assume I’ll need to show up like an extra hour early to give them time to harass me about it, but what are the chances that this works at all, vs just being turned away regardless of what’s legal?
The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
601–610 of 780 posts
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#602I don't have a real ID and don't plan to get one, but I also basically never fly anymore (been over 5 years). However this is certainly further incentive for me not to fly - wonder if airlines will see a slight decline in travelers over next few years due to this.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#603Practically speaking, could I fly inside the U.S. without an ID? Just ask for the manual pat down? I assume I’ll need to show up like an extra hour early to give them time to harass me about it, but what are the chances that this works at all, vs just being turned away regardless of what’s legal?
I was pickpocketed a few years ago and was able to fly domestically without ID.
They had some service that gave them a bunch of identity verification questions about my past and I had to go through a little rigamaroll answering them.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#604Earlier quoted context omitted.
That would be sensible if the traffic signs were in English.
Traffic signs are readable by almost anybody regardless of English language skills. A vision test is much more safety-valid than an English language test.
I disagree that traffic signs are readable regardless of language skills. Yes, it's just a matter of developing recognition for simple pictorial signs. You just have to learn it. If I put a French "No Vehicles" sign in Florida, nobody is going to have a clue what it means, even though there are no words on it, and that's dangerous.
Not recognizing or incorrectly interpreting "Crash I-9 N/B Exp Right 2 Lanes Closed Merge Left 2000 ft" is also dangerous, right?
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#605Earlier quoted context omitted.
Er, I don't get it. I do the same thing at every airport in the US: walk off the plane and straight into a taxi.
I think they're talking about international travel and not having to go through border control within the Schengen space even though you're traveling to different countries.
Yes, but border control isn't security. I don't go through security when I arrive in the US either. (I do have global entry but that just means I usually go through immigration faster.) If I have a connecting flight after arriving in the US I do sometimes have to go through security again with my carryon but that's a function of airport layout.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#606It's hilarious how transparent a money grab this entire thing is. "You need to show a Real ID for security, otherwise how do we know you won't hijack the plane?" "Well I don't have a Real ID." "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." So it was never about security at all then, was it? And don't get me started with all the paid express security lanes. Because of course only poor people can weaponize shoes and la…
> "Ok then, give us $45 and you can go through." It's not pay $45 to go though, it's pay $45 for someone to take you around back and look you up based on secondary identification, and if they can't positively identify you based on that you still can't go through. This is a system that has been in place for a long, long time. You could always say you don't have ID and they'll look you up. The change is they're now cha…
Fully agreed with you. Amazing how blatant misinformation gets to the top here.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#607Earlier quoted context omitted.
The situation re: psychological safety becomes very apparent when you mention to foreigners how often guns accidentally make it through TSA in peoples bags - and get discovered on screening on the return flight. Saucers for eyes, saucers! Hah The reality is that screening raises the bar enough that most casuals won’t risk it unless they’re crazy, which is worth something, and makes most people feel comfy, which is al…
I think it's human nature to point at something you don't like and if it isn't 100% perfect then point to it and say it's flawed and must be taken down. Repeated examples on HN - TSA effectiveness - AI Writing code free bug - Self driving cars get into accidents
- TSA fails its own Red Team exercises 95% of the time.
- Self driving cars have measurably fewer accidents.
If you're confusing the two, I suggest you look into the data.
*Not sure on AI code yet.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#608What if an airline requires ID, is that legal? (Say to e.g. sell discounted tickets to 65+ people, or to avoid people selling tickets on)?
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#609Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Obeying the law, no matter how pointless, wasteful, or destructive, is a virtue." Does it make you feel good to participate in a meaningless charade of security theater? Or would you rather spend your time doing some of value?
> Does it make you feel good to participate in a meaningless charade of security theater? Or would you rather spend your time doing some of value? I think there is a lot of value in being part of a democratic society that has structured dispute-resolution processes. Part of the cost of that is occasionally going along with something pointless (even if some things warrant civil disobedience, not everything does), and…
So "Just don't be gay/smoke weed, it's not legal, if you don't like it there's a process to get that changed" is the kind of viewpoint that's compatible with your ideology then?
Law in a democracy ALWAYS lags public sentiment because without sentiment to pander to no politician will lift a finger. Overt sentiment always lags behind closed doors sentiment because practically nobody is gonna display overt sentiment until there's some indication from their experience that support for their sentiment is there. There MUST be room for petty noncompliance to let people discover that the noncompliance in some unknown case is perhaps not bad in order to kick start the process.
People like you are actively working to prevent and delay alignment between the people and the government/laws. If everyone subscribed to your ideology nothing would ever get done. If more people subscribed to it then things would change slower than they do.
You can tell yourself whatever you need to sleep at night but this sort of compliance as a virtue ideology you subscribe to is the evil that keeps our democracies from delivering good results promptly. I'm not saying go murder your neighbor because "fuck the law" or whatever, but an ideology that does not permit for deviance when such deviance is tasteful is a bad one.
Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal
#610Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you offer the public FDA-inspected cinnamon for a 20% premium over not-inspected-and-may-contain-dangerous-levels-of-lead cinnamon, a lot of people will pay the premium. But a large percentage of people will opt for the cheaper cinnamon. If you let it be known that the FDA inspection amounts to a high school dropout trying to read a manifest on a shipping container full of imported cinnamon, a lot more people will…
I would just let the airlines pick if they want TSA screening or not. Customers could buy flights with whatever security level they want. If you fly intrastate in Alaska there is no screening on commercial flights (it seems TSA must not be required on non-interstate flights). Technically it's still illegal to bring a gun but no one would know one way or the other. It really didn't bother me that there was no security…
Effectiveness and theatricality aside, that wouldn’t work: the risk that the TSA ostensibly controls for is primarily that of planes being used as weapons against non-passengers, and only secondarily passenger security/hijacking.