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Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

bbc.com

601–610 of 839 posts

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like, really ? Do they seriously think someone who should answer yes will really answer yes ? No, they do not think anyone will check 'Yes' to that box. The purpose of the box is that it's a crime to lie when someone checks 'No', and that tends to be an easy charge to bring. So, the purpose of the form is to generate convictions for lying on the form.

Wouldn't it be easier to make those things illegal and then prosecute them instead of the lie? For prosecuting a lie you need to prove 2 things, the thing lied about and the lie itself, so it seems like a more difficult prosecution for no reason. Also how does every other country in the world manage to not have these questions?

This is what happens when a legal system and a political system is taken over by specialists with little to no other skills.

Instead of politics being about setting policy to work toward desire outcomes, politics becomes about ensuring the viability of future political processes. Instead of the legal system being about defining crime, establishing punishment and carrying out said punishments it becomes about ensnaring others in legal "gotcha" moments like lying on a form. Society is not safer because of the outlawed nature of lying on a form. Society is not better off because someone is convicted of lying on a form. The individuals who participate in the prosecution are better off because it gives them an opportunity to advance their career.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#602
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people don't want to drop off at the airport? There's literally a multi storey full of short term parking at every Heathrow terminal. They wouldn't fit in the drop off area at all. You are charged to be at the baggage claim. The airline pays it on your behalf, from your fare.

you are not charged to be at the baggage claim

Baggage claim being run by a charity, obviously.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But to prove lying you would have to prove being a terrorist anyway...

No, being a member of a “terrorist organization” and the government allows itself latitude in defining that. It’s much easier to associate someone with an organization than to show personal acts of terrorism.

Right but to demonstrate that you lied about X they have to demonstrate X. So by the time you're deporting someone for the lie you could just as easily have deported them for the thing itself.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting to contrast this with my experience flying out of China. I was taken to a private room and shown the digital colored X-ray of my bag on which a box had been drawn around an empty lighter, I was asked to remove it myself and hand it over, and I went on my way. All in under 5 minutes, no pat down, no fuss, and no one physically rifled through my belongings. (Granted I was a tourist so that might w…

Flying back from Beijing, I had bought a lot of books. I filled my bags with it, so they were very heavy. When the agent came to try to check my backpack, he casually grabbed it, and fell on the conveyor belt trying to lift it. He looked at me with shock. "I'm done", I thought. He opened the bag, and saw a box of zongzi the university gave me, on top of the books. He instantly became radiant, gave me a pat on the bac…

If I were him, I'd have let you bribe me with a zongzi. Those look delicious!

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#605
post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not it’s a question on the pre-clearance form for travel to the US: ”are you or have you ever been a member of a terrorist organisation” - I always wondered what the rationale for that was

I liked the “have you been in contact with someone with Ebola” questions the kiosk used to ask people entering Canada. I’m like, uhhhh, I dunno, maybe? A little late to inform me that I was supposed to be asking/testing everyone.

If I knew the answer to that was yes I'd already be at the hospital ...

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#606
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take an empty, open water bottle through security and then fill it up at the free water fountains!

There is often no free water.

I've been all over the USA, continental Europe, and Japan, and there have always been water fountains. Granted, I've never been to one of the "don't drink the tap water" countries.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#607

If you think you had it bad all these years, you should come and visit the Falkland Islands. I will be brief, but I will explain what going through the Mount Pleasant Airport (MPN) feel like for the average visitor. For added context: Only one flight by a commercial airline a week on Saturday, comes in around 1300, departs around 1500. You miss it, you wait another week. - The terminal is extremely small, the plane t…

I flew to Belfast in the mid-2000s. I don't remember the security screening as being that unusual (for an American), but the terminal architecture was interesting.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#608

This just adds confusion as to the purpose of all this. The motivation behind the liquid limits is that there are extremely powerful explosives that are stable water-like liquids. Average people have never heard of them because they aren’t in popular lore. There has never been an industrial or military use, solids are simpler. Nonetheless, these explosives are easily accessible to a knowledgeable chemist like me. The…

> It would be great if governments were more explicit about precisely what all of this theater is intended to prevent.

The liquids requirement was in response to a famous (at the time) plot by people in Britain to smuggle a two part liquid explosive onto the plane. So the context was, at the time, obvious and needed no explanation.

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#609
If anyone's looking for a quick "airport security is mostly theater" argument, without getting into the weeds of weapon & explosive & detection technologies - notice that pagers and similar electronics are not on the TSA's list of forbidden items -

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/whatcanibring/...

- despite their famous use as at-scale, remotely controlled explosives devices back in 2024 -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Lebanon_electronic_device...

Re: Heathrow scraps liquid container limit

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt that most people are happy with the tradeoffs of safety vs. convenience provided by the TSA. The general idea of x-ray, metal detectors, sure, that's all good. But the stuff with taking off your shoes, small containers of liquid, etc., no. I think if we reverted to a simpler system with fewer oddly specific requirements layered on top, most people would not feel significantly less safe, but would fe…

The thing about shoes is just dumb anyway - I don't know if there was some period of time where it was required elsewhere around the world but I never experienced it. Literally the only times I've ever had to take off my shoes were during the two times I've visited the US (vs. a over a dozen trips to European and Asian countries). Liquid restrictions were also lifted in my country four or so years ago for domestic tr…

It was a reaction to a very specific incident that happened just after 9/11 so the policy basically took effect at the same time the TSA started existing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_63_(2...

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