Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

601–610 of 612 posts

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#601

Post by SapporoChris »

mlrtime wrote: post #532
yndoendo wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One point that gets very little coverage is that fossil fuels are a limited resource. Once they used they are gone. The materials for renewable energy are still in a usable form.

I don't think you realize how much OIL we still have. The warnings about running out of oil is long long gone. You're right, it's not infinite, but we are in no crisis now or in the foreseeable future.

"You're right, it's not infinite, but we are in no crisis now or in the foreseeable future."

Have you not heard of climate change influenced by fossil fuel burning, or are you a climate change skeptic?

The general consensus is that climate change is a crisis, now and in the foreseeable future.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#602

Post by mlrtime »

SapporoChris wrote: post #601
mlrtime wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you realize how much OIL we still have. The warnings about running out of oil is long long gone. You're right, it's not infinite, but we are in no crisis now or in the foreseeable future.

"You're right, it's not infinite, but we are in no crisis now or in the foreseeable future." Have you not heard of climate change influenced by fossil fuel burning, or are you a climate change skeptic? The general consensus is that climate change is a crisis, now and in the foreseeable future.

Yes of course, but i have not heard of a reasonable action plan given the world's population and basic human nature.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#603

Post by AuthAuth »

maxglute wrote: post #325
AuthAuth wrote: post #289

All this praise around China's buildout is just encouraging others ignore a problem to sell the solution. When the major nations started coming together to reduce emissions it was agreed that they would all aim to reduce emissions. However China did the opposite and purposefully scaled coal at record rates for nearly a decade and implemented no environmental regulations so as to outcomplete the nations who were trans…

>it was agreed that they would all aim to reduce emissions No, it was agreed during Kyoto that developed nations would reduce emissions, and developing nations (aka PRC, India) would not. Developing nations could keeping scaling fossil to industrialize until Paris where all countries had to submit climate plan (again not explicitly to reduce), and PRC's was to peak emissions by 2030s, which they're on trend to do ear…

China is not a developing nation. At that time they were more than wealthy enough to implement the same regulation as other nations and their industry was already developed.

They are not on trend to peak emissions pre 2030. Here is what happens Reliable china emission data takes a long time to verify and collect. So during the times where good data is not available china makes a ton of claims that will not line up with the next emissions study that comes out.

Ok then why does every country scale up their manufactering to make clean tech solutions. Im sure US, EU, India and Africa could use a few more steel mills and some coal plants to power it, we can handwave the emissions if they end up producing clean tech.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#604

Post by miguelazo »

tzs wrote: post #571
mlrtime wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you met a person, they told you their Party Affiliation, then went to tell you how it isn't "real". Sorry I don't believe your paraphrasing of this person's real thoughts and ideas. I'm sure these people exist, but it doesn't mean anything. I could equally go find someone crazy saying the world is going to end this year.

> I'm sure these people exist, but it doesn't mean anything. One of those people is the current President of the United States.

Along with most of the people who voted for him.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#605

Post by maxglute »

AuthAuth wrote: post #603
maxglute wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it was agreed that they would all aim to reduce emissions No, it was agreed during Kyoto that developed nations would reduce emissions, and developing nations (aka PRC, India) would not. Developing nations could keeping scaling fossil to industrialize until Paris where all countries had to submit climate plan (again not explicitly to reduce), and PRC's was to peak emissions by 2030s, which they're on trend to do ear…

China is not a developing nation. At that time they were more than wealthy enough to implement the same regulation as other nations and their industry was already developed. They are not on trend to peak emissions pre 2030. Here is what happens Reliable china emission data takes a long time to verify and collect. So during the times where good data is not available china makes a ton of claims that will not line up wi…

China WAS a developing nation in Kyoto 1997, GDP per capital $800, high income $7000.

China WAS a developing nation in Paris 2015, GDP per capita $11000, high income $13000 USD.

China JUST around developed nation in 2025, GDP per capita $14000, high income $14000.

They're on trend to peak emissions last year, see study below for PRC emissions trending down for last 18 months. What happens is we have these things called satellites that can detect emissions live, so you get the PREVIOUS study that confirms they have likely already peaked emissions.

Every country SHOULD scale manufacturing, no other country can scale as much as PRC into making stuff commodity tier. If PRC peak domestic emissions and global clean tech exports displaces 5x more emissions than US oil and produce net global reduction in emissions then that's aggregate emission reduction. If other countries can/wants to do that they ought to. It's not about handwaving emissions, it's about realizing 50% of world are developing, they're going to consume and generate massive amounts of shit, aka poverty alleviation, which is moral good, which will require magnitude increase in power and the most sustainable pathway to that is use as much clean tech as possible, clean tech that net displaces more emissions, which is only possible by making clean tech cheap, which PRC is uniquely able to do.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#606

Post by quinndexter »

alex43578 wrote: post #565
raziel2p wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have democrats not made similar statements about Trump, him being a danger to democracy and such?

[flagged]

The way deportations were calculated by the administration was changed to include certain types of border rejections, IIRC.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#607

Post by triceratops »

Saline9515 wrote: post #592
triceratops wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious you're so worried about "ecological consequences" but only when it's window power.

The problem is that those power sources are marketed as "renewable" (they aren't as they quickly end in landfills), are intermittent, require fossil fuels for when the wind doesn't blow, and are not profitable. One could also say that they change heavily natural landscapes, but this is a matter of taste.

> they aren't as they quickly end in landfills

Do you also lead a zero-plastic, zero-waste lifestyle?

> are intermittent, require fossil fuels for when the wind doesn't blow

Batteries.

> are not profitable.

Let the businesses worry about that.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#608

Post by taskforcegemini »

mlrtime wrote: post #529
zingar wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it changes your point, but the other day I met a republican who said he doesn’t think climate change is a thing but peak oil, now that’s something to worry about. The longevity of this plus the “no anthropogenic climate change” nonsense is astounding. Armchair climate sceptics are happy to seriously stick to talking points that are so out of date that even the oil industry doesn’t use them anymore.

So you met a person, they told you their Party Affiliation, then went to tell you how it isn't "real". Sorry I don't believe your paraphrasing of this person's real thoughts and ideas. I'm sure these people exist, but it doesn't mean anything. I could equally go find someone crazy saying the world is going to end this year.

>I could equally go find someone crazy saying the world is going to end this year.

Given current events, one doesn't have to be crazy to believe this

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#609

Post by derektank »

epolanski wrote: post #512
derektank wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go over budget because regulatory burdens are very high, not because of any fundamental unknowns in deploying the technology. A motivated national government could reduce the cost substantially.

You make it sound like the regulatory burdens don't have a purpose and are merely annoyances.

Regulations of course have a purpose but they are often (a) out of date with respect to current technology (b) not well well designed to accomplish their intended purpose in the first place or ignored 2nd and 3rd order effects and (c) perverted to extract rents for incumbents at the expense of new market entrants. Certainly (a) is true in most places with respect to nuclear technology.

Re: Photos capture the breathtaking scale of China's wind and solar buildout

#610

Post by sien »

sensanaty wrote: post #534
AnotherGoodName wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also ridiculously far ahead on grid connected battery storage. https://elements.visualcapitalist.com/top-20-countries-by-ba... Australia > all of Europe (yes all of Europe, not just EU) combined on that one.

To be fair Australia also has approximately infinitely more sun than most of Europe does. But true, we could be doing a lot better in the EU regardless

The thing to look at is C02 equivalent emissions from electricity generation.

Despite Australia's high solar and battery penetration Australia's electricity generation is fairly high emissions.

https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/5y/monthly

France and Sweden have considerably lower emission electricity generation than Australia does.

Post reply on HN